Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing – 8. Sony RX100 twin rig


George Themelis
 

Sony RX100 – Clear winner?

 

I have been using a twin Sony RX100 rig for a year and a half now and I am very pleased with it. See the attached summary from the last Stereogram tutorial to see pictures of the setup and Vinny.

 

Strong points:

  • Sony’s reputation and reliability
  • Excellent synchronization with simple connections
  • Excellent lens & image quality
  • Electronic Viewfinder

 

The RX100 is Sony’s highly acclaimed compact travel camera. It is currently in its 7th version. Sony introduces a new version every so often. The old versions are not discontinued. At any point you can buy any version you want, brand new. Because a lot of people trade their old camera to get the newer version, there is a good market of used older version cameras.

 

This link summarizes all RX100 versions: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7237085229/which-sony-rx100-is-right-for-you

Version 1 does not have a multiport, so stay away from it

Version 2 has a flash shoe but no Viewfinder

Versions 3-5 have a fast 24-70mm f1.8-2.8 lens and electronic viewfinder (EVF)

Versions 6-7 have a 24-200mm f2.8-4.5 lens

 

Note: All versions are exactly the same dimensions so any bar (z-bar, for example) made for one version, will work for all others.

 

The fact that Sony stands behind this camera with new versions is good news. It means that you are getting a reliable popular camera, fully supported by Sony and third party manufacturers and you have a large supply of used cameras at your disposal.

 

I went for a pair of used Version 6 cameras because I wanted the 200mm long focal length (good for portraits and close-ups) and I did not want to get a loan to pay the price for new version 7 pair :) I also like the EFV and I use it a lot to adjust settings, compose, study the pictures. I need reading glasses to see the screen so I will happily use the EFV instead. Looking through the EFV makes me pay more attention to composition and ultimately results in better pictures.

 

The lens is excellent IMO and the sensor size is of the 1 inch type (13.2x8.8mm) same as the RX0 and RX10, which is pretty good.

 

Synchronization is very simple, like all Sony cameras with pultiport. Werner has measured synchronization in one pair to be around 1/1000s average and this is in line with what I am seeing.

 

Weak points:

  • Compared to the other cameras, this is the heaviest / least compact, for running
  • You cannot get normal interaxial spacing easily
  • (minor) I do not like Sony’s menus, I wish the tripod screw was aligned with the lens, and the lens was more off the center (advantage in the z-configuration), it is very expensive

 

This camera makes a good study for the different ways to arrange two cameras for 3D. Here is the minimum stereo base for different arrangements:

 

  • Side-by-side: 118mm minimum. Even though the camera is 102mm wide, I need 16mm of space for the remote cable between the cameras
  • Z-configuration: 90mm. The advantage of this Sony camera is that the remote ports is on the outside in this configuration so the cameras can touch
  • Staggered (Overlapping): 75mm
  • Bottom-To-Bottom: Complicated by the fact that the tripod screw is not aligned with the lens
  • Top-To-Top: 60mm, but requires a rather complicated setup, not good for running with it

 

I started with the side-by-side and z-configurations and I was happy. Then I tried the overlapping configuration and now I am even happier.

 

The reason I avoided the overlapping configuration is because of the inherent error (to be explained more in the next posting). In this configuration, one camera (front) is 25mm ahead of the other camera (back). The front camera is closer to the near object, which will appear slightly larger, while infinity is the same size.

 

As it turns out, the error is z/D, where z  is the displacement of the cameras (25mm here) and D is the distance to the nearest object. The error is independent of the focal length (expected, considering that the error is due to perspective which only depends on distances and not focal lengths). This error is not eliminated during alignment with software.

 

But when I tried it, I was happy to find out that the error was not very obvious (more later). I try to keep this ratio at 1/100 or less, which means that I keep the near object at 100z = 2.5m (~8 ft).

 

This is the situation when infinity is in the picture. For close-ups I can get closer with even less error (more later).

 

Here is how I use these cameras:

 

I have the cameras on a bar. I use panoramic mini clamps, which allow me to change the spacing of the cameras without disturbing their alignment. They also allow me to change the convergence very easily. I am able to switch from side-by-side to overlapping quickly and accurately. I am able to converge the cameras for close-ups, easily. I am very happy with these clamps, even though they add a bit of weight.

 

I normally use the cameras in P mode (with -1/3 exposure compensation) and daylight color balance. I use shutter priority (S) to force a high shutter speed for action. I use Auto in tricky lighting situations. I use auto focus and have no problems with it.

 

I have the cameras set to step zoom mode. When I turn the front ring, the zoom changes in steps and not continuously (but still changes continuously using the lever). In step mode it goes: 24, 28, 25, 50, etc. So, in step mode it is easier to match the zooms.

 

To help me stay away from the near object, and also because I don’t like the 24mm focal length setting for general 3D photography, I routinely use either 35mm or 50mm focal length.

 

You would expect that there is a way to have the zoom go straight to 35mm when you turn the cameras on. But, no! The zoom always goes to 24mm when the cameras are turned on in every mode setting, except for one (MR, Memory Recall). Panasonic cameras have a setting where the camera will remember the zoom and return to it when turned on, while Sony does not. I prefer the Panasonic menus / options over the Sony.

 

A couple of problems I have had:

  • The mode dial can move as I take the camera rig in and out of my camera bag. I have to remember to check from time to time to make sure that the modes are the same.
  • The front camera can bump the zoom lever of the back, giving unmatched zooms. It is annoying when this happens. Another thing I need to check periodically.

 

Overall Evaluation:

 

From all the cameras I tested, this is definitely the best. Yes, it weighs more and takes more space, but it definitely takes better pictures. This is the camera I will take if I am going to do serious photography. Pictures in low light or actions shots (Vinny leaping over logs) come out great.

 

In addition to “running with Vinny” this is now my main travel 3D rig. I use it for everything from normal, to hyperstereos, and even close-ups.

 

So, the way it goes with my runs with Vinny:

  • If I do not plan to take pictures, I take my phone
  • If I want to do the minimum, I take the Panasonic 3D1, which I can hold on my hands (don’t need a camera bag)
  • For more serious but compact photography, I take a small camera bag with the RX0 rig and the 3D1
  • For serious photography, I take a larger bag with the RX100 and the 3D1 (or even all 3).

 

George

 


William Kiraly
 

George,

This is a great summary. I am coming to like the RX100’s but after reading this, I’m thinking I want to upgrade the versions I am using and would love to hear your recommendations on buying and selling to upgrade.

After shooting with the Samsungs for several years and now just getting used to the RX100’s, I’m going to add a few comments and questions. At George’s suggestion, I too am using the overlap  configuration and after experimenting for a while, am getting more comfortable  with it but I am still learning and still practicing.

One thing George did not comment on which makes me very happy is the battery life. With my Samsungs, one or the other of my batteries was constantly dying. When shooting in the cold, I could barely get ten shots off. With the RX100’s I can shoot for several hours with one pair.

Re the batteries, do note that the Sony battey in pants pockets does not survive a trip through the washing machine but this is probably not limited to Sony :-) 

I have the Mark II version and I bought that due to cost which a year and a half ago was about $200 to $250 a camera. I regret that choice. I like having at least the 100mm zoom which wasn’t present in the III’s but the lack of a viewfinder Is a big miss. You can buy an electronic viewfinder that fits in the hotshot but it is the cost of another camera. While the view is better on the Sony than the Samsung in terms of brightness and the screen articulates just a little, I still find it hard to shoot in sunlight. 

Synchronization is far more reliable than with the Samsungs, sometimes they worked, sometimes it was click-wait-click. The Sonys are reliably good for standard shooting.

I was recently practice shooting at a dog park. Pictures of the dogs sitting or trotting were fine. All my pictures of the dogs coming out of the water, even though the shutters sounded matched, the water spray, ears, tongues and tails were in  different positions. 

George, do you know if synchronization changes/gets better with the later versions or is this a limitation of the series?
     
Do you have any idea of what the Mark IIs might sell for and what and where I might find a pair or Mark VIs?

Another downside with the Sony’s is that you can’t add filters to them. The lens is nicely protected when the camera is off with a built in lens cover but I was trying to do some closeups recently but the cameras I have did not work well for that and I couldn’t get close up lenses.

One last disadvantage, I think of all the Sony’s is that I can’t use them in 3D mode with flash, on or off camera.

The images are nice and from what I’ve been reading, are much better with the later versions than my Mark IIs

Bill

—————————————————————————
William Kiraly
Writer / Photographer / Programmer
440-655-7971




------ Original Message ------
From: "George Themelis" <gathemelis@...>
Sent: 6/9/2021 11:52:53 AM
Subject: [Photo-3d] Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing – 8. Sony RX100 twin rig

Sony RX100 – Clear winner?

 

I have been using a twin Sony RX100 rig for a year and a half now and I am very pleased with it. See the attached summary from the last Stereogram tutorial to see pictures of the setup and Vinny.

 

Strong points:

  • Sony’s reputation and reliability
  • Excellent synchronization with simple connections
  • Excellent lens & image quality
  • Electronic Viewfinder

 

The RX100 is Sony’s highly acclaimed compact travel camera. It is currently in its 7th version. Sony introduces a new version every so often. The old versions are not discontinued. At any point you can buy any version you want, brand new. Because a lot of people trade their old camera to get the newer version, there is a good market of used older version cameras.

 

This link summarizes all RX100 versions: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7237085229/which-sony-rx100-is-right-for-you

Version 1 does not have a multiport, so stay away from it

Version 2 has a flash shoe but no Viewfinder

Versions 3-5 have a fast 24-70mm f1.8-2.8 lens and electronic viewfinder (EVF)

Versions 6-7 have a 24-200mm f2.8-4.5 lens

 

Note: All versions are exactly the same dimensions so any bar (z-bar, for example) made for one version, will work for all others.

 

The fact that Sony stands behind this camera with new versions is good news. It means that you are getting a reliable popular camera, fully supported by Sony and third party manufacturers and you have a large supply of used cameras at your disposal.

 

I went for a pair of used Version 6 cameras because I wanted the 200mm long focal length (good for portraits and close-ups) and I did not want to get a loan to pay the price for new version 7 pair :) I also like the EFV and I use it a lot to adjust settings, compose, study the pictures. I need reading glasses to see the screen so I will happily use the EFV instead. Looking through the EFV makes me pay more attention to composition and ultimately results in better pictures.

 

The lens is excellent IMO and the sensor size is of the 1 inch type (13.2x8.8mm) same as the RX0 and RX10, which is pretty good.

 

Synchronization is very simple, like all Sony cameras with pultiport. Werner has measured synchronization in one pair to be around 1/1000s average and this is in line with what I am seeing.

 

Weak points:

  • Compared to the other cameras, this is the heaviest / least compact, for running
  • You cannot get normal interaxial spacing easily
  • (minor) I do not like Sony’s menus, I wish the tripod screw was aligned with the lens, and the lens was more off the center (advantage in the z-configuration), it is very expensive

 

This camera makes a good study for the different ways to arrange two cameras for 3D. Here is the minimum stereo base for different arrangements:

 

  • Side-by-side: 118mm minimum. Even though the camera is 102mm wide, I need 16mm of space for the remote cable between the cameras
  • Z-configuration: 90mm. The advantage of this Sony camera is that the remote ports is on the outside in this configuration so the cameras can touch
  • Staggered (Overlapping): 75mm
  • Bottom-To-Bottom: Complicated by the fact that the tripod screw is not aligned with the lens
  • Top-To-Top: 60mm, but requires a rather complicated setup, not good for running with it

 

I started with the side-by-side and z-configurations and I was happy. Then I tried the overlapping configuration and now I am even happier.

 

The reason I avoided the overlapping configuration is because of the inherent error (to be explained more in the next posting). In this configuration, one camera (front) is 25mm ahead of the other camera (back). The front camera is closer to the near object, which will appear slightly larger, while infinity is the same size.

 

As it turns out, the error is z/D, where z  is the displacement of the cameras (25mm here) and D is the distance to the nearest object. The error is independent of the focal length (expected, considering that the error is due to perspective which only depends on distances and not focal lengths). This error is not eliminated during alignment with software.

 

But when I tried it, I was happy to find out that the error was not very obvious (more later). I try to keep this ratio at 1/100 or less, which means that I keep the near object at 100z = 2.5m (~8 ft).

 

This is the situation when infinity is in the picture. For close-ups I can get closer with even less error (more later).

 

Here is how I use these cameras:

 

I have the cameras on a bar. I use panoramic mini clamps, which allow me to change the spacing of the cameras without disturbing their alignment. They also allow me to change the convergence very easily. I am able to switch from side-by-side to overlapping quickly and accurately. I am able to converge the cameras for close-ups, easily. I am very happy with these clamps, even though they add a bit of weight.

 

I normally use the cameras in P mode (with -1/3 exposure compensation) and daylight color balance. I use shutter priority (S) to force a high shutter speed for action. I use Auto in tricky lighting situations. I use auto focus and have no problems with it.

 

I have the cameras set to step zoom mode. When I turn the front ring, the zoom changes in steps and not continuously (but still changes continuously using the lever). In step mode it goes: 24, 28, 25, 50, etc. So, in step mode it is easier to match the zooms.

 

To help me stay away from the near object, and also because I don’t like the 24mm focal length setting for general 3D photography, I routinely use either 35mm or 50mm focal length.

 

You would expect that there is a way to have the zoom go straight to 35mm when you turn the cameras on. But, no! The zoom always goes to 24mm when the cameras are turned on in every mode setting, except for one (MR, Memory Recall). Panasonic cameras have a setting where the camera will remember the zoom and return to it when turned on, while Sony does not. I prefer the Panasonic menus / options over the Sony.

 

A couple of problems I have had:

  • The mode dial can move as I take the camera rig in and out of my camera bag. I have to remember to check from time to time to make sure that the modes are the same.
  • The front camera can bump the zoom lever of the back, giving unmatched zooms. It is annoying when this happens. Another thing I need to check periodically.

 

Overall Evaluation:

 

From all the cameras I tested, this is definitely the best. Yes, it weighs more and takes more space, but it definitely takes better pictures. This is the camera I will take if I am going to do serious photography. Pictures in low light or actions shots (Vinny leaping over logs) come out great.

 

In addition to “running with Vinny” this is now my main travel 3D rig. I use it for everything from normal, to hyperstereos, and even close-ups.

 

So, the way it goes with my runs with Vinny:

  • If I do not plan to take pictures, I take my phone
  • If I want to do the minimum, I take the Panasonic 3D1, which I can hold on my hands (don’t need a camera bag)
  • For more serious but compact photography, I take a small camera bag with the RX0 rig and the 3D1
  • For serious photography, I take a larger bag with the RX100 and the 3D1 (or even all 3).

 

George

 


--

--------------------------------------------------------------
William Kiraly
wkiraly@...
Personal Site: www.cohenkiraly.com
Writing: www.befuddledmuse.com
3D Gallery: https://stereopix.net/wkiraly/
SmugMug: https://wkiraly.smugmug.com/


robert mcafee
 

Timo Puhakka on this forum has developed a circuit allowing synchronized flash with twin Sony cameras (at least some models). He published some details of his circuit be he was not producing these for others

If you search this forum for Sony Flash you may find the details




On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 10:48 AM, William Kiraly <wkiraly@...> wrote:

George,

This is a great summary. I am coming to like the RX100’s but after reading this, I’m thinking I want to upgrade the versions I am using and would love to hear your recommendations on buying and selling to upgrade.

After shooting with the Samsungs for several years and now just getting used to the RX100’s, I’m going to add a few comments and questions. At George’s suggestion, I too am using the overlap  configuration and after experimenting for a while, am getting more comfortable  with it but I am still learning and still practicing.

One thing George did not comment on which makes me very happy is the battery life. With my Samsungs, one or the other of my batteries was constantly dying. When shooting in the cold, I could barely get ten shots off. With the RX100’s I can shoot for several hours with one pair.

Re the batteries, do note that the Sony battey in pants pockets does not survive a trip through the washing machine but this is probably not limited to Sony :-) 

I have the Mark II version and I bought that due to cost which a year and a half ago was about $200 to $250 a camera. I regret that choice. I like having at least the 100mm zoom which wasn’t present in the III’s but the lack of a viewfinder Is a big miss. You can buy an electronic viewfinder that fits in the hotshot but it is the cost of another camera. While the view is better on the Sony than the Samsung in terms of brightness and the screen articulates just a little, I still find it hard to shoot in sunlight. 

Synchronization is far more reliable than with the Samsungs, sometimes they worked, sometimes it was click-wait-click. The Sonys are reliably good for standard shooting.

I was recently practice shooting at a dog park. Pictures of the dogs sitting or trotting were fine. All my pictures of the dogs coming out of the water, even though the shutters sounded matched, the water spray, ears, tongues and tails were in  different positions. 

George, do you know if synchronization changes/gets better with the later versions or is this a limitation of the series?
     
Do you have any idea of what the Mark IIs might sell for and what and where I might find a pair or Mark VIs?

Another downside with the Sony’s is that you can’t add filters to them. The lens is nicely protected when the camera is off with a built in lens cover but I was trying to do some closeups recently but the cameras I have did not work well for that and I couldn’t get close up lenses.

One last disadvantage, I think of all the Sony’s is that I can’t use them in 3D mode with flash, on or off camera.

The images are nice and from what I’ve been reading, are much better with the later versions than my Mark IIs

Bill

—————————————————————————
William Kiraly
Writer / Photographer / Programmer
440-655-7971




------ Original Message ------
From: "George Themelis" <gathemelis@...>
Sent: 6/9/2021 11:52:53 AM
Subject: [Photo-3d] Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing – 8. Sony RX100 twin rig

Sony RX100 – Clear winner?

 

I have been using a twin Sony RX100 rig for a year and a half now and I am very pleased with it. See the attached summary from the last Stereogram tutorial to see pictures of the setup and Vinny.

 

Strong points:

  • Sony’s reputation and reliability
  • Excellent synchronization with simple connections
  • Excellent lens & image quality
  • Electronic Viewfinder

 

The RX100 is Sony’s highly acclaimed compact travel camera. It is currently in its 7th version. Sony introduces a new version every so often. The old versions are not discontinued. At any point you can buy any version you want, brand new. Because a lot of people trade their old camera to get the newer version, there is a good market of used older version cameras.

 

This link summarizes all RX100 versions: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7237085229/which-sony-rx100-is-right-for-you

Version 1 does not have a multiport, so stay away from it

Version 2 has a flash shoe but no Viewfinder

Versions 3-5 have a fast 24-70mm f1.8-2.8 lens and electronic viewfinder (EVF)

Versions 6-7 have a 24-200mm f2.8-4.5 lens

 

Note: All versions are exactly the same dimensions so any bar (z-bar, for example) made for one version, will work for all others.

 

The fact that Sony stands behind this camera with new versions is good news. It means that you are getting a reliable popular camera, fully supported by Sony and third party manufacturers and you have a large supply of used cameras at your disposal.

 

I went for a pair of used Version 6 cameras because I wanted the 200mm long focal length (good for portraits and close-ups) and I did not want to get a loan to pay the price for new version 7 pair :) I also like the EFV and I use it a lot to adjust settings, compose, study the pictures. I need reading glasses to see the screen so I will happily use the EFV instead. Looking through the EFV makes me pay more attention to composition and ultimately results in better pictures.

 

The lens is excellent IMO and the sensor size is of the 1 inch type (13.2x8.8mm) same as the RX0 and RX10, which is pretty good.

 

Synchronization is very simple, like all Sony cameras with pultiport. Werner has measured synchronization in one pair to be around 1/1000s average and this is in line with what I am seeing.

 

Weak points:

  • Compared to the other cameras, this is the heaviest / least compact, for running
  • You cannot get normal interaxial spacing easily
  • (minor) I do not like Sony’s menus, I wish the tripod screw was aligned with the lens, and the lens was more off the center (advantage in the z-configuration), it is very expensive

 

This camera makes a good study for the different ways to arrange two cameras for 3D. Here is the minimum stereo base for different arrangements:

 

  • Side-by-side: 118mm minimum. Even though the camera is 102mm wide, I need 16mm of space for the remote cable between the cameras
  • Z-configuration: 90mm. The advantage of this Sony camera is that the remote ports is on the outside in this configuration so the cameras can touch
  • Staggered (Overlapping): 75mm
  • Bottom-To-Bottom: Complicated by the fact that the tripod screw is not aligned with the lens
  • Top-To-Top: 60mm, but requires a rather complicated setup, not good for running with it

 

I started with the side-by-side and z-configurations and I was happy. Then I tried the overlapping configuration and now I am even happier.

 

The reason I avoided the overlapping configuration is because of the inherent error (to be explained more in the next posting). In this configuration, one camera (front) is 25mm ahead of the other camera (back). The front camera is closer to the near object, which will appear slightly larger, while infinity is the same size.

 

As it turns out, the error is z/D, where z  is the displacement of the cameras (25mm here) and D is the distance to the nearest object. The error is independent of the focal length (expected, considering that the error is due to perspective which only depends on distances and not focal lengths). This error is not eliminated during alignment with software.

 

But when I tried it, I was happy to find out that the error was not very obvious (more later). I try to keep this ratio at 1/100 or less, which means that I keep the near object at 100z = 2.5m (~8 ft).

 

This is the situation when infinity is in the picture. For close-ups I can get closer with even less error (more later).

 

Here is how I use these cameras:

 

I have the cameras on a bar. I use panoramic mini clamps, which allow me to change the spacing of the cameras without disturbing their alignment. They also allow me to change the convergence very easily. I am able to switch from side-by-side to overlapping quickly and accurately. I am able to converge the cameras for close-ups, easily. I am very happy with these clamps, even though they add a bit of weight.

 

I normally use the cameras in P mode (with -1/3 exposure compensation) and daylight color balance. I use shutter priority (S) to force a high shutter speed for action. I use Auto in tricky lighting situations. I use auto focus and have no problems with it.

 

I have the cameras set to step zoom mode. When I turn the front ring, the zoom changes in steps and not continuously (but still changes continuously using the lever). In step mode it goes: 24, 28, 25, 50, etc. So, in step mode it is easier to match the zooms.

 

To help me stay away from the near object, and also because I don’t like the 24mm focal length setting for general 3D photography, I routinely use either 35mm or 50mm focal length.

 

You would expect that there is a way to have the zoom go straight to 35mm when you turn the cameras on. But, no! The zoom always goes to 24mm when the cameras are turned on in every mode setting, except for one (MR, Memory Recall). Panasonic cameras have a setting where the camera will remember the zoom and return to it when turned on, while Sony does not. I prefer the Panasonic menus / options over the Sony.

 

A couple of problems I have had:

  • The mode dial can move as I take the camera rig in and out of my camera bag. I have to remember to check from time to time to make sure that the modes are the same.
  • The front camera can bump the zoom lever of the back, giving unmatched zooms. It is annoying when this happens. Another thing I need to check periodically.

 

Overall Evaluation:

 

From all the cameras I tested, this is definitely the best. Yes, it weighs more and takes more space, but it definitely takes better pictures. This is the camera I will take if I am going to do serious photography. Pictures in low light or actions shots (Vinny leaping over logs) come out great.

 

In addition to “running with Vinny” this is now my main travel 3D rig. I use it for everything from normal, to hyperstereos, and even close-ups.

 

So, the way it goes with my runs with Vinny:

  • If I do not plan to take pictures, I take my phone
  • If I want to do the minimum, I take the Panasonic 3D1, which I can hold on my hands (don’t need a camera bag)
  • For more serious but compact photography, I take a small camera bag with the RX0 rig and the 3D1
  • For serious photography, I take a larger bag with the RX100 and the 3D1 (or even all 3).

 

George

 


--

--------------------------------------------------------------
William Kiraly
wkiraly@...
Personal Site: www.cohenkiraly.com
Writing: www.befuddledmuse.com
3D Gallery: https://stereopix.net/wkiraly/
SmugMug: https://wkiraly.smugmug.com/


George Themelis
 

Hi Bill,

 

Nice to hear from you! Responding to some of your questions/comments:

 

  1. Yes, battery life is pretty good. But to remove the battery, I have to disassemble the cameras from the mount, so that takes a while. Also, I have to disassemble the cameras to remove the SD cards. (For the RX0 I do not have to do that). Just a minor inconvenience.

 

  1. Quite a few people prefer the 24-70mm lens because it is faster and they have no need for the longer focal lengths. I use the longer focal lengths a lot for close-ups, so I would make the same choice again. Potentially, you could be happier too if you like close-ups.

 

  1. A quick check at ebay’s prices of used cameras gives:
    version II sells for $200-$300
    version vi sells for $500-$600

When I bought my version vi cameras I paid $735 and $782, so price have dropped but they are still quite high. I am not afraid to buy used cameras, I have had good luck as a rule.

 

  1. Regarding the flash, as Bob said, Timo has made a circuit, but this will require a flash shoe and only version ii has that. I have accepted the fact that there is no flash with my RX100s. If I want flash, I will use the Samsung (or the Panasonic 3D lens for close-ups/macro).

 

  1. Regarding synchronization, I believe the pair that Werner tested was a version ii. As he said, the ~1/1000s is average and he gave the deviation. From my shooting there are shots not synchronized well, but they are the exception. I don’t know how much of variability there is from version to version and from one pair of cameras to another. We need to do more testing.

 

  1. If you do a google search “Sony RX100 filter adapter” you will see that there are adapters that allow you to add filters to the Sony RX100, for example: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/984421-REG/sony_vfa_49r1_49mm_filter_adapter.html

But if you need a close-up lens to get close-ups with the twin rig, then you are certainly too close.

 

George

 

 

 

 

 

From: William Kiraly
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:48 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing – 8. Sony RX100 twin rig

 

George,

 

This is a great summary. I am coming to like the RX100’s but after reading this, I’m thinking I want to upgrade the versions I am using and would love to hear your recommendations on buying and selling to upgrade.

 

After shooting with the Samsungs for several years and now just getting used to the RX100’s, I’m going to add a few comments and questions. At George’s suggestion, I too am using the overlap  configuration and after experimenting for a while, am getting more comfortable  with it but I am still learning and still practicing.

 

One thing George did not comment on which makes me very happy is the battery life. With my Samsungs, one or the other of my batteries was constantly dying. When shooting in the cold, I could barely get ten shots off. With the RX100’s I can shoot for several hours with one pair.

 

Re the batteries, do note that the Sony battey in pants pockets does not survive a trip through the washing machine but this is probably not limited to Sony :-) 

 

I have the Mark II version and I bought that due to cost which a year and a half ago was about $200 to $250 a camera. I regret that choice. I like having at least the 100mm zoom which wasn’t present in the III’s but the lack of a viewfinder Is a big miss. You can buy an electronic viewfinder that fits in the hotshot but it is the cost of another camera. While the view is better on the Sony than the Samsung in terms of brightness and the screen articulates just a little, I still find it hard to shoot in sunlight. 

 

Synchronization is far more reliable than with the Samsungs, sometimes they worked, sometimes it was click-wait-click. The Sonys are reliably good for standard shooting.

 

I was recently practice shooting at a dog park. Pictures of the dogs sitting or trotting were fine. All my pictures of the dogs coming out of the water, even though the shutters sounded matched, the water spray, ears, tongues and tails were in  different positions. 

 

George, do you know if synchronization changes/gets better with the later versions or is this a limitation of the series?

     

Do you have any idea of what the Mark IIs might sell for and what and where I might find a pair or Mark VIs?

 

Another downside with the Sony’s is that you can’t add filters to them. The lens is nicely protected when the camera is off with a built in lens cover but I was trying to do some closeups recently but the cameras I have did not work well for that and I couldn’t get close up lenses.

 

One last disadvantage, I think of all the Sony’s is that I can’t use them in 3D mode with flash, on or off camera.

 

The images are nice and from what I’ve been reading, are much better with the later versions than my Mark IIs

 

Bill

 

—————————————————————————

William Kiraly

Writer / Photographer / Programmer

440-655-7971

 

 

_._,_._,_

 


timo@guildwood.net
 

Lots of detail on my website www.stereocamera.ca about the flash synchronization. It should work with any pair of cameras that fire synchronized with a split, wired remote. 
It is a detailed description but it wouldn’t be hard to make a working circuit, for somebody with a little experience soldering circuit boards.

Timo

On Jun 10, 2021, at 11:11 AM, robert mcafee via groups.io <geargod2@...> wrote:

Timo Puhakka on this forum has developed a circuit allowing synchronized flash with twin Sony cameras (at least some models). He published some details of his circuit be he was not producing these for others

If you search this forum for Sony Flash you may find the details




On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 10:48 AM, William Kiraly <wkiraly@...> wrote:

George,

This is a great summary. I am coming to like the RX100’s but after reading this, I’m thinking I want to upgrade the versions I am using and would love to hear your recommendations on buying and selling to upgrade.

After shooting with the Samsungs for several years and now just getting used to the RX100’s, I’m going to add a few comments and questions. At George’s suggestion, I too am using the overlap  configuration and after experimenting for a while, am getting more comfortable  with it but I am still learning and still practicing.

One thing George did not comment on which makes me very happy is the battery life. With my Samsungs, one or the other of my batteries was constantly dying. When shooting in the cold, I could barely get ten shots off. With the RX100’s I can shoot for several hours with one pair.

Re the batteries, do note that the Sony battey in pants pockets does not survive a trip through the washing machine but this is probably not limited to Sony :-) 

I have the Mark II version and I bought that due to cost which a year and a half ago was about $200 to $250 a camera. I regret that choice. I like having at least the 100mm zoom which wasn’t present in the III’s but the lack of a viewfinder Is a big miss. You can buy an electronic viewfinder that fits in the hotshot but it is the cost of another camera. While the view is better on the Sony than the Samsung in terms of brightness and the screen articulates just a little, I still find it hard to shoot in sunlight. 

Synchronization is far more reliable than with the Samsungs, sometimes they worked, sometimes it was click-wait-click. The Sonys are reliably good for standard shooting.

I was recently practice shooting at a dog park. Pictures of the dogs sitting or trotting were fine. All my pictures of the dogs coming out of the water, even though the shutters sounded matched, the water spray, ears, tongues and tails were in  different positions. 

George, do you know if synchronization changes/gets better with the later versions or is this a limitation of the series?
     
Do you have any idea of what the Mark IIs might sell for and what and where I might find a pair or Mark VIs?

Another downside with the Sony’s is that you can’t add filters to them. The lens is nicely protected when the camera is off with a built in lens cover but I was trying to do some closeups recently but the cameras I have did not work well for that and I couldn’t get close up lenses.

One last disadvantage, I think of all the Sony’s is that I can’t use them in 3D mode with flash, on or off camera.

The images are nice and from what I’ve been reading, are much better with the later versions than my Mark IIs

Bill

—————————————————————————
William Kiraly
Writer / Photographer / Programmer
440-655-7971




------ Original Message ------
From: "George Themelis" <gathemelis@...>
Sent: 6/9/2021 11:52:53 AM
Subject: [Photo-3d] Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing – 8. Sony RX100 twin rig

Sony RX100 – Clear winner?

 

I have been using a twin Sony RX100 rig for a year and a half now and I am very pleased with it. See the attached summary from the last Stereogram tutorial to see pictures of the setup and Vinny. 

 

Strong points:

  • Sony’s reputation and reliability
  • Excellent synchronization with simple connections
  • Excellent lens & image quality
  • Electronic Viewfinder
 

The RX100 is Sony’s highly acclaimed compact travel camera. It is currently in its 7th version. Sony introduces a new version every so often. The old versions are not discontinued. At any point you can buy any version you want, brand new. Because a lot of people trade their old camera to get the newer version, there is a good market of used older version cameras.

 

This link summarizes all RX100 versions: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7237085229/which-sony-rx100-is-right-for-you

Version 1 does not have a multiport, so stay away from it

Version 2 has a flash shoe but no Viewfinder

Versions 3-5 have a fast 24-70mm f1.8-2.8 lens and electronic viewfinder (EVF)

Versions 6-7 have a 24-200mm f2.8-4.5 lens

 

Note: All versions are exactly the same dimensions so any bar (z-bar, for example) made for one version, will work for all others.

 

The fact that Sony stands behind this camera with new versions is good news. It means that you are getting a reliable popular camera, fully supported by Sony and third party manufacturers and you have a large supply of used cameras at your disposal. 

 

I went for a pair of used Version 6 cameras because I wanted the 200mm long focal length (good for portraits and close-ups) and I did not want to get a loan to pay the price for new version 7 pair :) I also like the EFV and I use it a lot to adjust settings, compose, study the pictures. I need reading glasses to see the screen so I will happily use the EFV instead. Looking through the EFV makes me pay more attention to composition and ultimately results in better pictures.

 

The lens is excellent IMO and the sensor size is of the 1 inch type (13.2x8.8mm) same as the RX0 and RX10, which is pretty good.

 

Synchronization is very simple, like all Sony cameras with pultiport. Werner has measured synchronization in one pair to be around 1/1000s average and this is in line with what I am seeing.

 

Weak points:

  • Compared to the other cameras, this is the heaviest / least compact, for running
  • You cannot get normal interaxial spacing easily
  • (minor) I do not like Sony’s menus, I wish the tripod screw was aligned with the lens, and the lens was more off the center (advantage in the z-configuration), it is very expensive
 

This camera makes a good study for the different ways to arrange two cameras for 3D. Here is the minimum stereo base for different arrangements:

 
  • Side-by-side: 118mm minimum. Even though the camera is 102mm wide, I need 16mm of space for the remote cable between the cameras
  • Z-configuration: 90mm. The advantage of this Sony camera is that the remote ports is on the outside in this configuration so the cameras can touch
  • Staggered (Overlapping): 75mm
  • Bottom-To-Bottom: Complicated by the fact that the tripod screw is not aligned with the lens
  • Top-To-Top: 60mm, but requires a rather complicated setup, not good for running with it
 

I started with the side-by-side and z-configurations and I was happy. Then I tried the overlapping configuration and now I am even happier.

 

The reason I avoided the overlapping configuration is because of the inherent error (to be explained more in the next posting). In this configuration, one camera (front) is 25mm ahead of the other camera (back). The front camera is closer to the near object, which will appear slightly larger, while infinity is the same size. 

 

As it turns out, the error is z/D, where z  is the displacement of the cameras (25mm here) and D is the distance to the nearest object. The error is independent of the focal length (expected, considering that the error is due to perspective which only depends on distances and not focal lengths). This error is not eliminated during alignment with software.

 

But when I tried it, I was happy to find out that the error was not very obvious (more later). I try to keep this ratio at 1/100 or less, which means that I keep the near object at 100z = 2.5m (~8 ft).

 

This is the situation when infinity is in the picture. For close-ups I can get closer with even less error (more later).

 

Here is how I use these cameras:

 

I have the cameras on a bar. I use panoramic mini clamps, which allow me to change the spacing of the cameras without disturbing their alignment. They also allow me to change the convergence very easily. I am able to switch from side-by-side to overlapping quickly and accurately. I am able to converge the cameras for close-ups, easily. I am very happy with these clamps, even though they add a bit of weight.

 

I normally use the cameras in P mode (with -1/3 exposure compensation) and daylight color balance. I use shutter priority (S) to force a high shutter speed for action. I use Auto in tricky lighting situations. I use auto focus and have no problems with it.

 

I have the cameras set to step zoom mode. When I turn the front ring, the zoom changes in steps and not continuously (but still changes continuously using the lever). In step mode it goes: 24, 28, 25, 50, etc. So, in step mode it is easier to match the zooms. 

 

To help me stay away from the near object, and also because I don’t like the 24mm focal length setting for general 3D photography, I routinely use either 35mm or 50mm focal length.

 

You would expect that there is a way to have the zoom go straight to 35mm when you turn the cameras on. But, no! The zoom always goes to 24mm when the cameras are turned on in every mode setting, except for one (MR, Memory Recall). Panasonic cameras have a setting where the camera will remember the zoom and return to it when turned on, while Sony does not. I prefer the Panasonic menus / options over the Sony.

 

A couple of problems I have had:

  • The mode dial can move as I take the camera rig in and out of my camera bag. I have to remember to check from time to time to make sure that the modes are the same.
  • The front camera can bump the zoom lever of the back, giving unmatched zooms. It is annoying when this happens. Another thing I need to check periodically.
 

Overall Evaluation:

 

From all the cameras I tested, this is definitely the best. Yes, it weighs more and takes more space, but it definitely takes better pictures. This is the camera I will take if I am going to do serious photography. Pictures in low light or actions shots (Vinny leaping over logs) come out great.

 

In addition to “running with Vinny” this is now my main travel 3D rig. I use it for everything from normal, to hyperstereos, and even close-ups.

 

So, the way it goes with my runs with Vinny:

  • If I do not plan to take pictures, I take my phone
  • If I want to do the minimum, I take the Panasonic 3D1, which I can hold on my hands (don’t need a camera bag)
  • For more serious but compact photography, I take a small camera bag with the RX0 rig and the 3D1
  • For serious photography, I take a larger bag with the RX100 and the 3D1 (or even all 3).
 

George

 



-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------
William Kiraly
wkiraly@...
Personal Site: www.cohenkiraly.com
Writing: www.befuddledmuse.com
3D Gallery: https://stereopix.net/wkiraly/
SmugMug: https://wkiraly.smugmug.com/


timo@guildwood.net
 


  1. Regarding the flash, as Bob said, Timo has made a circuit, but this will require a flash shoe and only version ii has that. I have accepted the fact that there is no flash with my RX100s. If I want flash, I will use the Samsung (or the Panasonic 3D lens for close-ups/macro).

Actually my circuit should work with the RX100s, as long as you are using spliced cables to synchronize them. I specifically designed the circuit (or Mark did) to work with my a5100s specifically because they didn’t have a hot shoe.

I have a question for you George. In the staggered arrangement (or overlapping?), How much distortion or rivalry do you get because of the difference in the lens to subject distance? 

Timo

 
 
 
 
From: William Kiraly
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:48 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing – 8. Sony RX100 twin rig
 
George,
 
This is a great summary. I am coming to like the RX100’s but after reading this, I’m thinking I want to upgrade the versions I am using and would love to hear your recommendations on buying and selling to upgrade.
 
After shooting with the Samsungs for several years and now just getting used to the RX100’s, I’m going to add a few comments and questions. At George’s suggestion, I too am using the overlap  configuration and after experimenting for a while, am getting more comfortable  with it but I am still learning and still practicing.
 
One thing George did not comment on which makes me very happy is the battery life. With my Samsungs, one or the other of my batteries was constantly dying. When shooting in the cold, I could barely get ten shots off. With the RX100’s I can shoot for several hours with one pair.
 
Re the batteries, do note that the Sony battey in pants pockets does not survive a trip through the washing machine but this is probably not limited to Sony :-) 
 
I have the Mark II version and I bought that due to cost which a year and a half ago was about $200 to $250 a camera. I regret that choice. I like having at least the 100mm zoom which wasn’t present in the III’s but the lack of a viewfinder Is a big miss. You can buy an electronic viewfinder that fits in the hotshot but it is the cost of another camera. While the view is better on the Sony than the Samsung in terms of brightness and the screen articulates just a little, I still find it hard to shoot in sunlight. 
 
Synchronization is far more reliable than with the Samsungs, sometimes they worked, sometimes it was click-wait-click. The Sonys are reliably good for standard shooting.
 
I was recently practice shooting at a dog park. Pictures of the dogs sitting or trotting were fine. All my pictures of the dogs coming out of the water, even though the shutters sounded matched, the water spray, ears, tongues and tails were in  different positions. 
 
George, do you know if synchronization changes/gets better with the later versions or is this a limitation of the series?
     
Do you have any idea of what the Mark IIs might sell for and what and where I might find a pair or Mark VIs?
 
Another downside with the Sony’s is that you can’t add filters to them. The lens is nicely protected when the camera is off with a built in lens cover but I was trying to do some closeups recently but the cameras I have did not work well for that and I couldn’t get close up lenses.
 
One last disadvantage, I think of all the Sony’s is that I can’t use them in 3D mode with flash, on or off camera.
 
The images are nice and from what I’ve been reading, are much better with the later versions than my Mark IIs
 
Bill
 
—————————————————————————
William Kiraly
Writer / Photographer / Programmer
440-655-7971
 
 


Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France)
 

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 10:46 AM, George Themelis wrote:
I have accepted the fact that there is no flash with my RX100s. If I want flash, I will use the Samsung (or the Panasonic 3D lens for close-ups/macro).
If you are in a dark place where you can use a slow shutter speed (1/15s) you can use the flash.
Last summer I took very good stereo pictures of my daughters in a cave on a boat etc. (speleology) with my RX100 VI pair and a Metz MECABLITZ 28 CS-2 flash triggered by the flash of one RX100 (so the light is better as I hold the flash in my left hand away from the cameras, and more powerful than the RX100 flash).