Topics

May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era


Josep Barbera
 

Sony 3D Photography ... what's new about zoom sync, video sync and extreme hiper stereo?

Please watch the explanatory video here:

https://youtu.be/LxTxS8i88ME

The Sony VMC-MM2 cable enables the perfect sync of the current Sony cameras through the Multi-Terminal port, as discussed some time ago:

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/120124

http://forum.phereo.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=296&start=10

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/jose-barbera-marti-using-the-sony-vmc-mm2-cable-for-sony-alpha-rigs/

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34930791?p=Created,,,20,1,0,0

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34930676#119324



Compact cameras (travel cams) can be a good choice:

https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/3d-fotografie-mit-sony-ingrid-ben/42132755



Now, Probably, the best option is the Sony ZV-1:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/cyber-shot-compact-cameras/zv-1



But surely the most versatile (larger sensor and interchangeable lenses) are the mirror less Sony cams:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3979618


Synchronization is only possible following the two-step ritual (focus first and shoot later), and for this reason the first attempts failed (according to some rumors), because without these ritual (shooting without previous focus) the synchronization is very bad: 4, 8 or more milliseconds. Infrared devices failed because it doesn't allow that two-step ritual. Some people also tried that, in 2011, but also without success:

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34906135#81549


On the other hand, the possibility of also synchronizing zoom and video has been discussed in various forums, including this one:

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/124370?p=,,,20,0,0,0::relevance,,barbera,20,2,120,71595794

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/94942

https://groups.io/g/ISU3D/topic/75522577#9


Three difficulties appear when we make 3D photography and 3D video using the current Sony Alpha cams.

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2
cable for make hyper stereo
2) Get video sync
3) Get zoom sync


Problem 1: The limited length of the Sony VMC-MM2 cable only allows a cam separation about 60 cm and therefore we must look for other solutions to achieve greater camera separation when making 3D hyper stereo photography.

To capture distant and moving objects (with depth, this is in 3D), the hyper-stereo photographer must place the two cameras distant and parallel to each other (even several meters: “extreme hyper stereo photos”) in order to capture two sufficiently different perspectives, so that our brain, uniting the two photos perceive good depth, even when the objects are very far away: 200 meters, or even more.

For this reason, hyper stereo photography is a type of augmented reality, because it manages to obtain 3D stereo photos (also videos) of distant subjects showing depth between them, despite the fact that the human eye cannot see depth (only perspective, not stereopsis...) when the subjects are very far away.

Sometimes inexperienced eyes (their corresponding brain) interpret that augmented reality (surprising depth and roundness of distant objects) as authentic miniatures (that is the surprising “Lilliput -or miniature- effect”).




Problem 2: On the other hand, achieving video synchronization using the VMC-MM2 cable is only possible in the latest camera models. Sony informs that is only possible if the firmware allows that the recording “start” can be assigned to the trigger button. From the manual “To synchronize video REC/STOP, the main camera must have "Movie with shutter" assigned to its release button, following these settings: Menu:-- > Movie 3: Movie with shutter button ON”

https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/cscs/accessories/compatibility.php?area=gb&lang=es&mdl=VMC-MM2&cat=3

Perhaps video synchronization is possible in all other Sony models, through a future firmware update, but I think it could be convenient to find now a suitable solution.




Problem 3: Getting a perfect Synchronization of the Sony motorized zooms also can be a very interesting matter in 3D video and also in 3D photo (in hyper and also in normo stereo) , but that is not possible using the Sony VMC-MM2 cable because it was designed to be used by Sony only for the RXO camera (so not for 3D photo) and this cam has a fixed lens (not interchangeable), without zoom.

Some colleagues, 3D lovers, have tried to synchronizing two paired Sony zooms using mechanical means, such as rubbers, tires, and straps, but with little success.



Researching to solve these 3 problems...

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2 cable for make hyper stereo
2) Video sync and
3) Zoom sync

... we can find interesting devices, now for sale in the market: wired and wireless devices:



A.- Wired devices

A1:- Cable extenders for the Multi-Terminal port to increase the distance between both cameras making hyper stereo photography.
A2: - Useful wired devices to synchronize the zoom of both cameras:
.- Sony Stativ VCT-SGR1
.- Sony GPVPT1.CE7(Minitrypod)
.- Sony RM-VPR1 (Minitrypod)
and several clones...

B.- Wireless devices

B1.- Pixel RW-221/S2 controller:
B2.- Pixel TW-283/S2 remote controller
B3.- Pholsy Wireless Remote with an intervalometer.
B4.- JJC 2.4G 100M Wireless Remote Control for Sony
B5.- LanParte Wireless Remote Control for Sony.

Here is a short post with a overview of them:


A.- Wired devices

A1:- Trying to increase the distance between both cameras making hyper stereo photography

As previously mentioned, some brands (DSLRKIT and others ) manufacture cables (female and male) that, joined, can synchronize two Sony cameras, in a similar way to how the Sony cable works: Plug & Play. Using these 2 cables both cameras can be master and also slave, interchangeably.

Between these 2 cables (female and male) can be connected an extender cable (2, 3, 5M long or more) with 2.5 mm plugs:

Female and male cables:

https://savemoney.es/asin/B00M6N0FQ8
https://savemoney.es/asin/B00KWXK6CC

Cable extender:

https://www.ebay.es/itm/5m-Stereo-2-5mm-Jack-Extension-Cable-5m-Extender-Lead-Male-to-Female-New/251175532261?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Mini-2-5mm-Jack-Extension-Male-to-Female-Socket-in-2-3-5-Metre-Lengths/140878173940?hash=item20ccfe56f4:m:mFhzQVo-ycaYtoZ1Ro8mYmw

That allows hyper stereo photos taken with a long distance between both cameras ( in order to capture two sufficiently different perspectives, so that brain can perceive depth between objects very far away)) but that not allows video rec sync and zoom synchronization.




A2: - Useful wired devices to synchronize the zoom of both cameras (or more, for lenticular pics)

They are also very useful to shoot hyper stereo photos or videos, allowing an increase in the distance between the cams.
Several inside cables allow controlling focus, shooting, and also zoom from external control, keeping the camera without any vibration on a tripod.

They can be very useful in 2D video recording, but they are very difficult to use for 3D stereo photography (because then both paired cameras must have the same focal length at all times..) or 3D stereo video (then, in addition, we need to synchronize the start and the stop recording).

Sony and several brands have marketed various wired devices to remotely control the motorized zoom of the Alpha cameras (zoom, in addition to focusing, shot, on and off). There are various prices, in accordance with its sophistication, even with tripod function, as Sony RM-VPR1, VCT-SGR1, Sony GPVPT1.CE7 and several clones.

The simplest Sony cable (RM-VPR1, 60€, no tripod), has several clones: Pholsy, Fotga, Mcplus, JJC SR-F2, and two brands (Topiky and Fotga) make a similar cable, but with a longer length.

https://savemoney.es/asin/B07Y9R48LH
https://savemoney.es/asin/B07VZZL1Q9

Sony Stativ VCT-SGR1 : Minitrypod: https://savemoney.es/asin/Sony%20Stativ%20VCT-SGR1
Sony GPVPT1.CE7 - Minitrypod : 100 euros : https://savemoney.es/asin/Sony%20GPVPT1.CE7

The obsolete RMT-VP1K (and other infrared devices) is not suitable for stereo photography since a good and perfect synchronization always requires two steps: focus (first) and shoot (later), but that is not possible using any infrared shooting device:

https://www.sony.es/electronics/tripodes-mandos-distancia-camaras-lentes-intercambiables/rmt-vp1k
https://savemoney.es/asin/B074SCK3HS
https://savemoney.es/asin/RMTDSLR2.CE

The Sony GP-VPT2BT bluetooth device is also not suitable for 3D photos due to an identical reason: absence of the two ritual steps: focus (first) and shooting (later): https://savemoney.es/asin/Sony%20GP-VPT2BT

In addition, SmallRig sells a wooden handgrip with a remote trigger for Sony cams, also with remote video start/stop.
www.smallrig.com/smallrig-right-side-wooden-hand-grip-with-record-start-stop-remote-trigger-for-sony-mirrorless-cameras-hsr2511.html



We have used two (one is Sony, the other is Fotga). The zoom works perfectly on the motorized lens, and “on, off, focus, shot” also work fine. All that is very useful in 2D photo, always without any vibration.

Perhaps it will be possible, in order to shoot 3D photos, synchronized video and zoom sync to obtain a Y branch from one device, with two plugs in order to connect 2 twinned cams. But I have found, inside 8 cables. I think soldering those 8 very slim wires is a very difficult job.



B.- Wireless devices

There are several devices that allow, wirelessly, to shoot both cameras simultaneously with very good synchronization with a disparity between both cams of less than half a millisecond.

Of course, just like when we are using cables, synchronization only works by doing the well-known two-step ritual: first focus (half-press) then shooting (full pressing). For this reason, devices that work by infrared (the obsolete RMT-VP1K and others) or Bluetooth (Sony GP-VPT2BT and RMTP1BT.SYU) are not useful.

But the wireless devices using 2.4GHz can be very useful in hyper stereo photography (3D photography of very distant subjects) because then both cameras can be fired synchronously with great separation between them, shooting to fireworks, landscapes, distant fauna, etc. The distance between the shutter and the cameras can be 60, 80, or 100 meters and for that reason, the two cameras can be 120, 160, or 200 meters apart from each other, with the shutter in the middle.

Using the wireless devices it is very easy to make extreme hyper stereo and also, in addition, some models can solve the already commented problems two and three: video sync and also zoom sync. We are going to see 5 different devices of this type.




B1.- Pixel RW-221/S2 controller

Without an LCD display. It allows us to trigger the camera wirelessly up to 100 meters. It is the simplest model (allowing only on, off, focus and shoot), without zoom sync and without video sync, but very useful in hyper stereo photography.

Four modes of shooting: single shooting, high-speed continuous shooting, BULB, and 4s delay shooting.
One transmitter is able to fire multiple receivers at the same time (that also can be very useful when taking lenticular photography): via the well-known two-step ritual (half-press to autofocus the camera and full press to shoot).

https://savemoney.es/asin/Pixel%20RW-221/S2
https://savemoney.es/asin/B01CJ5UBG6



B2.- Pixel TW-283 / S2 controller

With an LCD display. It works wirelessly up to 80 meters.

FSK 2.4 GHz Wireless Control System: It features no directionality and ultra-powerful anti-interference ability. With 30 channels for options, it can avoid interference caused by other similar devices.

4 modes for shutter release control: simple single shooting, BULB shooting, delay shooting, and timer schedule shooting
6 setting for timing control: delay timer, long exposure time, interval time, number of shoots, repeat shooting interval time and repeat times

Despite the 6 settings for time control, it doesn't have a significant advantage for taking s3D photos and is more expensive than the previous model (Pixel RW-221 / S2)

https://savemoney.es/asin/B017GY5KWA
https://savemoney.es/asin/B017GY5KWA


B3.- Pholsy Wireless controller (with an intervalometer)

With an LCD display. It allows us to trigger the camera wirelessly up to 60 meters.

4 types shutter: S (single shooting), C (continuous shooting), B (Bulb), 2S (2 seconds delay) and 5 timer functions: Delay timer, interval, long exposure time, N (number of frames setting). Also with BKLN (Auto bracketing for HDR, shutter release with instant, continuous 3, 5 or 7 shots).

None of these 3 models (B1, B2, B3) can synchronize video recording or allow synchronizing the zoom of Sony cameras.

https://savemoney.es/asin/B01NCYY1LW




B4.-JJC 2.4G 100M Sony Wireless Controler

Without an LCD display. Works at a frequency of 2.4GHz. That allows the transmitter to trigger the receiver from 100 meters away, therefore it is possible almost 200 meters of separation between both cameras
One transmitter is able to fire multiple receivers at the same time. That can be very useful when taking lenticular 3D photography.

Features multi-functions - power on / off, video start / stop, focusing / shooting, zooming and also ... displaying grid lines.

Transmitter (and also the paired receivers, placed in the flash slot) needs a standard battery.

https://savemoney.es/asin/B078ZC8DYD


B5.- LanParte Wireless Remote Control for Sony.


Without an LCD display.

2.4Ghz wireless control with 30 meters range. That implies that both cameras can be located almost 60 meters apart.

It controls multiple receivers and cameras to sync shooting, sync zoom (when power zoom lens is used), and also sync video as well (start/stop).

It is very useful in hyper stereo photography (60 meters is the maxim stereo base), and, in addition, it can controlling sync zoom and video (start/stop).

Only the transmitter needs a standard battery, but the very small paired receivers (placed in the multiterminal ports) don’t need a battery.

https://savemoney.es/asin/B07986K6ZF


These two last extraordinary devices for the Sony cams (JJC 2.4G and LanParte Wireless Remote) allow us to shoot wirelessly (with a miraculously synchronized zoom and video) using two or more perfectly synchronized cameras (separated since few centimeters until 200 meters in order to shoot 3D hyper stereo pics).

For these reasons they are a perfect complement of the Sony VMC-MM2 cable, already discussed here a few months ago:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/jose-barbera-marti-using-the-sony-vmc-mm2-cable-for-sony-alpha-rigs/

The LanParte Wireless device (it has very small battery-free receivers), allows a separation between the paired cams of almost 120 meters. That distance is usually enough in 3D hyper stereo photography.

If we even need more separation (up to 200 meters), we can use the JJC 2.4G 100M Wireless Controller. It is a bigger and heavier device because it also has batteries in their receivers.



LanParte Wireless <---- versus ----> JJC 2.4G 100M Controller

The LanParte Wireless device (it has very small battery-free receivers)
allows a separation between the paired cams of almost 120 meters.
That distance is usually enough in 3D hyper stereo photography.

If we need even more separation (up to 200 meters), we can use
the JJC 2.4G 100M Wireless Controller, but it is a bigger and
heavier device because it also has batteries in their receivers,
not only in the transmitter as the Lanparte.


You can use one of these two last devices (JJC wireless Control and LanParte Wireless) to solve all three big problems in Sony 3D photography, exposed:

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2 cable for make hyper stereo
2) Video sync and
3) Zoom sync


Therefore, these devices can greatly increase the versatility of Sony cameras when we make 3D photography or 3D video.


We now have 3D equipment of quality and versatility identical to that of 2D flat photography professionals !


Good luck with Sony's new era of 3D photography !!


Enjoy all those possibilities !!!


Best regards



José Barberà Martí
elxjob@...
(20/6/20)(20/7/22)

PS
Please watch the explanatory video here:

https://youtu.be/LxTxS8i88ME

https://stereopix.net/jose_barbera
https://holopix.page.link/S7K9
http://phereo.com/josebarbera


robert mcafee
 

Mr. Barbera, you should consider giving a presentation on the Sony cameras for the online only NSA conference in early August. I believe they were still seeking presenters. 

On Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 08:42:15 AM EDT, Josep Barbera <jmbarbera@...> wrote:


Sony 3D Photography ... what's new about zoom sync, video sync and
extreme hiper stereo?

Please watch the explanatory video here:


The Sony VMC-MM2 cable enables the perfect sync of the current Sony
cameras through the Multi-Terminal port, as discussed some time ago:








Compact cameras (travel cams) can be a good choice:




Now, Probably, the best option is the Sony ZV-1:




But surely the most versatile (larger sensor and interchangeable lenses)
are the mirror less Sony cams:



Synchronization is only possible following the two-step ritual  (focus
first and shoot later), and for this reason the first attempts failed
(according to some rumors), because without these ritual (shooting
without previous focus) the synchronization is very bad: 4, 8 or more
milliseconds. Infrared devices failed because it doesn't allow that
two-step ritual. Some people also tried that, in 2011, but also without
success:



On the other hand, the possibility of also synchronizing zoom and video
has been discussed in various forums, including this one:





Three difficulties appear when we make 3D photography and 3D video using
the current Sony Alpha cams.

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2
    cable for make hyper stereo
2) Get video sync
3) Get zoom sync


Problem 1: The limited length of the Sony VMC-MM2 cable only allows a
cam separation about 60 cm and therefore we must look for other
solutions to achieve greater camera separation when making 3D hyper
stereo photography.

To capture distant and moving objects (with depth, this is in 3D), the
hyper-stereo photographer must place the two cameras distant and
parallel to each other (even several meters: “extreme hyper stereo
photos”) in order to capture two sufficiently different perspectives, so
that our brain, uniting the two photos perceive good depth, even when
the objects are very far away: 200 meters, or even more.

For this reason, hyper stereo photography is a type of augmented
reality, because it manages to obtain 3D stereo photos (also videos) of
distant subjects showing depth between them, despite the fact that the
human eye cannot see depth (only perspective, not stereopsis...) when
the subjects are very far away.

Sometimes inexperienced eyes (their corresponding brain) interpret that
augmented reality (surprising depth and roundness of distant objects) as
authentic miniatures (that is the surprising “Lilliput -or miniature-
effect”).




Problem 2: On the other hand, achieving video synchronization using the
VMC-MM2 cable is only possible in the latest camera models. Sony informs
that is only possible if the firmware allows that the recording “start”
can be assigned to the trigger button. From the manual “To synchronize
video REC/STOP, the main camera must have "Movie with shutter" assigned
to its release button, following these settings: Menu:-- > Movie 3:
Movie with shutter button ON”


Perhaps video synchronization is possible in all other Sony models,
through a future firmware update, but I think it could be convenient to
find now a suitable solution.




Problem 3: Getting a perfect Synchronization of the Sony motorized zooms
also can be a very interesting matter in 3D video and also in 3D photo
(in hyper and also in normo stereo) , but that is not possible using the
Sony VMC-MM2 cable because it was designed to be used by Sony only for
the RXO camera (so not for 3D photo) and this cam has a fixed lens (not
interchangeable), without zoom.

Some colleagues, 3D lovers, have tried to synchronizing two paired Sony
zooms using mechanical means, such as rubbers, tires, and straps, but
with little success.



Researching to solve these 3 problems...

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2 cable for make hyper stereo
2) Video sync and
3) Zoom sync

...  we can find interesting devices, now for sale in the market: wired
and wireless devices:



A.- Wired devices

A1:-  Cable extenders for the Multi-Terminal port to increase the
distance between both cameras making hyper stereo photography.
A2: - Useful wired devices to synchronize the zoom of both cameras:
.- Sony Stativ VCT-SGR1
.- Sony GPVPT1.CE7(Minitrypod)
.- Sony RM-VPR1 (Minitrypod)
      and several clones...

B.- Wireless devices

B1.- Pixel RW-221/S2 controller:
B2.- Pixel TW-283/S2 remote controller
B3.- Pholsy Wireless Remote with an intervalometer.
B4.- JJC 2.4G 100M Wireless Remote Control for Sony
B5.- LanParte Wireless Remote Control for Sony.

Here is a short post with a overview of them:


A.- Wired devices

A1:- Trying to increase the distance between both cameras making hyper
stereo photography

As previously mentioned, some brands (DSLRKIT and others ) manufacture
cables (female and male) that, joined, can synchronize two Sony cameras,
in a similar way to how the Sony cable works: Plug & Play. Using these 2
cables both cameras can be master and also slave, interchangeably.

Between these 2 cables (female and male) can be connected an extender
cable (2, 3, 5M long or more) with 2.5 mm plugs:

Female and male cables:


Cable extender:



That allows hyper stereo photos taken with a long distance between both
cameras ( in order to capture two sufficiently different perspectives,
so that brain can perceive depth between objects very far away)) but
that not allows video rec sync and zoom synchronization.




A2: - Useful wired devices to synchronize the zoom of both cameras (or
more, for lenticular pics)

They are also very useful to shoot hyper stereo photos or videos,
allowing an increase in the distance between the cams.
Several inside cables allow controlling focus, shooting, and also zoom
from external control, keeping the camera without any vibration on a
tripod.

They can be very useful in 2D video recording, but they are very
difficult to use for 3D stereo photography (because then both paired
cameras must have the same focal length at all times..) or 3D stereo
video (then, in addition, we need to synchronize the start and the stop
recording).

Sony and several brands have marketed various wired devices to remotely
control the motorized zoom of the Alpha cameras (zoom, in addition to
focusing, shot, on and off). There are various prices, in accordance
with its sophistication, even with tripod function, as Sony RM-VPR1,
VCT-SGR1, Sony GPVPT1.CE7 and several clones.

The simplest Sony cable (RM-VPR1, 60€, no tripod), has several clones:
Pholsy, Fotga, Mcplus, JJC SR-F2, and two brands (Topiky and Fotga) make
a similar cable, but with a longer length.


Sony Stativ VCT-SGR1 : Minitrypod:
Sony GPVPT1.CE7 - Minitrypod : 100 euros :

The obsolete RMT-VP1K (and other infrared devices) is not suitable for
stereo photography since a good and perfect synchronization always
requires two steps: focus (first) and shoot (later), but that is not
possible using any infrared shooting device:


The Sony GP-VPT2BT bluetooth device is also not suitable for 3D photos
due to an identical reason: absence of the two ritual steps: focus
(first) and shooting (later): https://savemoney.es/asin/Sony%20GP-VPT2BT

In addition, SmallRig sells a wooden handgrip with a remote trigger for
Sony cams, also with remote video start/stop.
www.smallrig.com/smallrig-right-side-wooden-hand-grip-with-record-start-stop-remote-trigger-for-sony-mirrorless-cameras-hsr2511.html



We have used two (one is Sony, the other is Fotga). The zoom works
perfectly on the motorized lens, and “on, off, focus, shot” also work
fine. All that is very useful in 2D photo, always without any vibration.

Perhaps it will be possible, in order to shoot 3D photos, synchronized
video and zoom sync to obtain a Y branch from one device, with two plugs
in order to connect 2 twinned cams. But I have found, inside 8 cables. I
think soldering those 8 very slim wires is a very difficult job.



B.- Wireless devices

There are several devices that allow, wirelessly, to shoot both cameras
simultaneously with very good synchronization with a disparity between
both cams of less than half a millisecond.

Of course, just like when we are using cables, synchronization only
works by doing the well-known two-step ritual: first focus (half-press)
then shooting (full pressing). For this reason, devices that work by
infrared (the obsolete RMT-VP1K and others)  or Bluetooth (Sony
GP-VPT2BT and RMTP1BT.SYU) are not useful.

But the wireless devices using 2.4GHz can be very useful in hyper stereo
photography (3D photography of very distant subjects) because then both
cameras can be fired synchronously with great separation between them,
shooting to fireworks, landscapes, distant fauna, etc. The distance
between the shutter and the cameras can be 60, 80, or 100 meters and for
that reason, the two cameras can be 120, 160, or 200 meters apart from
each other, with the shutter in the middle.

Using the wireless devices it is very easy to make extreme hyper stereo
and also, in addition, some models can solve the already commented
problems two and three: video sync and also zoom sync. We are going to
see 5 different devices of this type.




B1.- Pixel RW-221/S2 controller

Without an LCD display. It allows us to trigger the camera wirelessly up
to 100 meters. It is the simplest model (allowing only on, off, focus
and shoot), without zoom sync and without video sync, but very useful in
hyper stereo photography.

Four modes of shooting: single shooting, high-speed continuous shooting,
BULB, and 4s delay shooting.
One transmitter is able to fire multiple receivers at the same time
(that also can be very useful when taking lenticular photography): via
the well-known two-step ritual (half-press to autofocus the camera and
full press to shoot).




B2.- Pixel TW-283 / S2 controller

With an LCD display. It works wirelessly up to 80 meters.

FSK 2.4 GHz Wireless Control System: It features no directionality and
ultra-powerful anti-interference ability. With 30 channels for options,
it can avoid interference caused by other similar devices.

4 modes for shutter release control: simple single shooting, BULB
shooting, delay shooting, and timer schedule shooting
6 setting for timing control: delay timer, long exposure time, interval
time, number of shoots, repeat shooting interval time and repeat times

Despite the 6 settings for time control, it doesn't have a significant
advantage for taking s3D photos and is more expensive than the previous
model (Pixel RW-221 / S2)



B3.- Pholsy Wireless controller (with an intervalometer)

With an LCD display. It allows us to trigger the camera wirelessly up to
60 meters.

4 types shutter: S (single shooting), C (continuous shooting), B (Bulb),
2S (2 seconds delay) and 5 timer functions: Delay timer, interval, long
exposure time, N (number of frames setting). Also with BKLN (Auto
bracketing for HDR, shutter release with instant, continuous 3, 5 or 7
shots).

None of these 3 models (B1, B2, B3) can synchronize video recording or
allow synchronizing the zoom of Sony cameras.





B4.-JJC 2.4G 100M Sony Wireless Controler

Without an LCD display. Works at a frequency of 2.4GHz. That allows the
transmitter to trigger the receiver from 100 meters away, therefore it
is possible almost 200 meters of separation between both cameras
One transmitter is able to fire multiple receivers at the same time.
That can be very useful when taking lenticular 3D photography.

Features multi-functions - power on / off, video start / stop, focusing
/ shooting, zooming and also ... displaying grid lines.

Transmitter (and also the paired receivers, placed in the flash slot)
needs a standard battery.



B5.- LanParte Wireless Remote Control for Sony.


Without an LCD display.

2.4Ghz wireless control with 30 meters range. That implies that both
cameras can be located almost 60 meters apart.

It controls multiple receivers and cameras to sync shooting, sync zoom
(when power zoom lens is used), and also sync video as well
(start/stop).

It is very useful in hyper stereo photography (60 meters is the maxim
stereo base), and, in addition, it can controlling sync zoom and video
(start/stop).

Only the transmitter needs a standard battery, but the very small paired
receivers (placed in the multiterminal ports) don’t need a battery.



These two last extraordinary devices for the Sony cams (JJC 2.4G and
LanParte Wireless Remote) allow us to shoot wirelessly (with a
miraculously synchronized zoom and video) using two or more perfectly
synchronized cameras (separated since few centimeters until 200 meters
in order to shoot 3D hyper stereo pics).

For these reasons they are a perfect complement of the Sony VMC-MM2
cable, already discussed here a few months ago:


The LanParte Wireless device (it has very small battery-free receivers),
allows a separation between the paired cams of almost 120 meters. That
distance is usually enough in 3D hyper stereo photography.

If we even need more separation (up to 200 meters), we can use the JJC
2.4G 100M Wireless Controller. It is a bigger and heavier device because
it also has batteries in their receivers.



LanParte Wireless <---- versus  ----> JJC 2.4G 100M Controller

The LanParte Wireless device (it has very small battery-free receivers)
allows a separation between the paired cams of almost 120 meters.
That distance is usually enough in 3D hyper stereo photography.

If we need even more separation (up to 200 meters), we can use
the JJC 2.4G 100M Wireless Controller, but it is a bigger and
heavier device because it also has batteries in their receivers,
not only in the transmitter as the Lanparte.


You can use one of these two last devices (JJC wireless Control and
LanParte Wireless) to solve all three big problems in Sony 3D
photography, exposed:

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2 cable for make hyper stereo
2) Video sync and
3) Zoom sync


Therefore, these devices can greatly increase the versatility of Sony
cameras when we make 3D photography or 3D video.


We now have 3D equipment of quality and versatility identical to that of
2D flat photography professionals !


Good luck with Sony's new era of 3D photography !!


Enjoy all those possibilities !!!


Best regards



José Barberà Martí
(20/6/20)(20/7/22)

PS
Please watch the explanatory video here:





Attachments:



George Themelis
 

The NSA virtual conference workshop schedule is full. You can see it here:

http://www.3d-con.com/workshops.php

 

George

 

From: robert mcafee via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:23 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era

 

Mr. Barbera, you should consider giving a presentation on the Sony cameras for the online only NSA conference in early August. I believe they were still seeking presenters. 

_._,_._,_

 


George Themelis
 

Besides, all the information is on the video and the email. You don’t need another presentation. Just watch the video.

 

Have in mind that the NSA workshops are only 20 minutes long, not 50 minutes as it was in the “live” conventions.

 

I give a workshop on twin camera stereo that will cover the Sonys too. But in 20 minutes, I can only scratch the surface.

 

Also, most of what Mr. Barbera is covering in the video is old news really. There is nothing new about the idea of triggering two cameras with wireless remotes from a distance. I mention that on my blog for the NX1000 cameras. The fact that you adjust the zoom is new for the Sony but now well are the zooms matched or the exposures syncrhronized by using this method? There is no word about this crucial fact.

 

George

 

 

 

From: George Themelis via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:28 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era

 

The NSA virtual conference workshop schedule is full. You can see it here:

http://www.3d-con.com/workshops.php

 

George

 

From: robert mcafee via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:23 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era

 

Mr. Barbera, you should consider giving a presentation on the Sony cameras for the online only NSA conference in early August. I believe they were still seeking presenters. 

 


timo@guildwood.net
 


 The fact that you adjust the zoom is new for the Sony but now well are the zooms matched or the exposures syncrhronized by using this method? There is no word about this crucial fact.


Not sure about using a remote for zoom setting, but I have noticed that it is pretty easy to step to the focal length you want on the Sony a5100. A brief touch of the zoom control by the shutter, steps the zoom by one number at a time. You can easily match zoom between lenses, albeit slowly. This is not true on the Samsungs I have found. The Samsungs jump past single numbers each activation, making it frustrating.

Timo

 
George
 
 
 
From: George Themelis via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:28 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era
 
The NSA virtual conference workshop schedule is full. You can see it here:
 
George
 
From: robert mcafee via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:23 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era
 
Mr. Barbera, you should consider giving a presentation on the Sony cameras for the online only NSA conference in early August. I believe they were still seeking presenters. 

 
<043FED36659B4E908C1BAC2891D56015.png>


George Themelis
 

That can be a lot of clicks :)
 
Not sure about cameras with interchangeable lenses but for cameras with build-in lenses, like the RX10 and RX100, you can switch to step control for the zoom. Unfortunately, Sony only allows you the step mode when you use the lens ring, not the zoom lever, and when you attach the remote, the zoom control is continuous with no choice for step zoom.
 
Step zoom is very convenient. Every time you turn the zoom ring, the zoom moves to the next value, for example 24, 28, 36, 50... etc. This is how I change and match the zoom (manually) with my RX10.
 
George
 

From: timo@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era
 
 
The fact that you adjust the zoom is new for the Sony but now well are the zooms matched or the exposures syncrhronized by using this method? There is no word about this crucial fact.
 
 
Not sure about using a remote for zoom setting, but I have noticed that it is pretty easy to step to the focal length you want on the Sony a5100. A brief touch of the zoom control by the shutter, steps the zoom by one number at a time. You can easily match zoom between lenses, albeit slowly. This is not true on the Samsungs I have found. The Samsungs jump past single numbers each activation, making it frustrating.
 
Timo

 
George
 
 
 
From: George Themelis via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:28 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era
 
The NSA virtual conference workshop schedule is full. You can see it here:
 
George
 
From: robert mcafee via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:23 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony multi-terminal era
 
Mr. Barbera, you should consider giving a presentation on the Sony cameras for the online only NSA conference in early August. I believe they were still seeking presenters.

 
<043FED36659B4E908C1BAC2891D56015.png>
 


Werner <wbloos@...>
 

Hello José,

 It allows the perfect synchronization of all current Sony cameras, thanks to the existence of the Multi-Terminal port:
The Sony VMC-MM2 cable enables the perfect sync of the current Sony cameras through the Multi-Terminal port
well, and where are your synchronisation tests (i mean synch measurements, not only selected single shots)? I would like to see your 'perfect' synchronisation results!

motorized zooms also can be a very interesting matter in 3D video and also in 3D photo (in hyper and also in normo stereo) , but that is not possible using the Sony VMC-MM2 cable because it was designed to be used by Sony only for the RXO camera (so not for 3D photo) and this cam has a fixed lens (not interchangeable), without zoom.
Wrong conclusion, this does not work because the VMC-MM2 connects only 3 pins: focus, shoot and GND, and not because the RX0 has a fixed lens!

Perhaps it will be possible, in order to shoot 3D photos, synchronized video, and zoom sync to obtain a Y branch from one device, with two plugs in order to connect 2 twinned cams. But I have found, inside 8 cables. I think soldering those 8 very slim wires is a very difficult job.
If you had ever tried that, you'd have found that a Y-splitting does NOT work! But it seems you were already overwhelmed with the 8 wires...


Werner


Josep Barbera
 


In the video about Sony 3D photography:, Zoom Sync, Video Sync and, Hyper Stereo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxTxS8i88ME

> (sync zoom) is not possible using the Sony VMC-MM2 cable because it was designed to be used by Sony only for the RXO camera (so not for 3D photo) and this cam has a fixed lens (not interchangeable), without zoom.


 Your reply:

>Wrong conclusion, this does not work because the VMC-MM2 connects only 3 pins:

> focus, shoot and GND, and not because the RX0 has a fixed lens!


I think my conclusion is correct and that my obvious conclusion is that the VMC-MM2 cable connects only 3 pins (focus, shoot, and GND) BECAUSE Sony engineers designed it to act only on the RX0 camera which it does not have, nor can it have... zoom lens.

>If you had ever tried that, you'd have found that a Y-splitting

>does NOT work! But it seems you were already overwhelmed with the 8 wires...

 

It is evident that I have not hidden that welding cables is not my specialty, since I am only a pulmonologist. I never hid my lack of welding expertise. That is why I think that your expression "overwhelmed" , qualifying me, is obviously a linguistic excess:

> “But I have found, inside 8 cables. I think soldering those 8 very slim wires is a very difficult job”.


I could have offered you an exchange: a free bronchoscopy for a free solder, in order to get a good (and wired) stereoscopy. Fortunately for you (a bronchoscopy is usually more unpleasant than a gastroscopy and other similar procedure), your soldering of the 8 wires has ended in failure: Since there is no successful wired stereoscopy, you have therefore gotten rid of my free bronchoscopy...

That is only a joke, certainly, because jokes can serve to soften some linguistic excesses.


Shortly before the start of the pandemic (2020/03/13), I proposed a wired solution for Sony zoom and video synchronization, explaining that the 8 cables that I had found were a soldering problem for me.

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/124371


A week later (2020/03/19) people explained his attempt, opening a new thread with a different title, but he did not report never the results to the 3D community:

"At this point I have several Vello and Pixel releases. By getting two of the Sony remotes, I can create on with the Sony wires and another one with Vello or Pixel wires, both with Sony switches :-)"

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/72080382#124505


Four months later (2020/07/24)  you (more skilled handling welds) have reported that this type of solution is not successful.

“that a Y-splitting  does NOT work!”

 

Despite my obvious lack of ability to solder cables, I think that the research has been very successful with very miraculous results, finding the best solution, the wireless solution.

The LanParte wireless controller, has a very small and light transmitter, with two very light receivers that are placed in the multi-terminal port of Sony cameras and they do not need any battery.

This little device allows excellent zoom sync (increasing and decreasing), video synchronization (REC / STOP), and also it allows extreme hyper stereo (up to more than fifty meters of stereo base, even through concrete walls indoors) and wild fauna pics.


In addition, it can control several Sony cams, so it is very useful for shoot lenticular 3D pics. Recently a self-considered 3D expert insisted in our group that a great advantage of Canon-SDM equipment over Sony is lenticular photography, but that is not completely true:


“But the true distinction here is that SDM allows synching large numbers of cameras. (...)

(...) That is impossible to do with Sony cameras”

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34931398#122337

For all these reasons the LanParte Sony controller is the perfect complement to Sony cameras because it also achieves a perfect shooting synchronization since the well-known 2 steps ritual is possible (focus first with half pressure, shoot later with a full press).


On the other hand, I am very glad that you recently have gotten a wired solution for syncing video and zoom on current Sony cameras. I have included it in the attached pdf that expands the information of the video.



Sony's new era of 3D photography started two years ago in the spring of 2018. The female DSLRKIT cable was reported in Phereo and also in the Photo-3D group. The Multi-Terminal port allowed a perfect synchronization (plug & play) of ALL current Sony cams. That was tested in an electronics megastore.

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34930576#118953

http://forum.phereo.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=296&start=10


Synchronization is only possible following the two-step ritual  (focus first and shoot later), and for this reason, the first attempts failed (according to some rumors), because without this ritual (shooting without previous focus) the synchronization is very bad: 4, 8, or more milliseconds, as we now can confirm when shooting without previous focus.

The infrared devices failed because it doesn't allow that two-step ritual (focus first, half pressure, shoot later, full press):  “dont know why but none of my tests with th IR were successfull”.

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34906135#81546


On October 12, 2018, Sony's new era was boosted when it was reported that the VMC-MM2 achieves wonderfully efficient plug & play syncing, despite Sony had intended it only for event photographers:

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34930791#120124

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/jose-barbera-marti-using-the-sony-vmc-mm2-cable-for-sony-alpha-rigs/


Now, in addition, since July 2020, all we know that a very simple device (LanParte controller, also fully plug & play), allows video sync and motorized zoom syncing in Sony Multi-Terminal cams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxTxS8i88ME

One month after that pleasant news and new video, the LanParte device, very useful in s3D photography, is difficult to find in the Amazon stores of Europe and only can be easy in a few and well-known Ebay sellers:

https://savemoney.es/asin/B07986K6ZF

No one can be surprised because now also the female DSLRKIT is now hard to find because also it is very useful in 3D photo. In fact, Sony camera users, shooting photos, and 3D video, are continuously increasing in number, day after day since spring 2018 and everyone is welcome to the Sony 3D club.



>well, and where are your synchronisation tests? I would like to see your 'perfect' synchronisation results


You know it is very easy to do the measurement of the synchronization, with good accuracy using a simple laser pendulum according to the Barry Aldous method, as that was shown a few months ago:

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/119435

http://phereo.com/image/5bcd9ab8e7e56470500001e5

http://forum.phereo.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=296&start=20#p1453


Perhaps more accurate measurement (more than a quarter of a millisecond?) can be necessary for some restless minds, but surely that is unnecessary for most, eager to take good 3D photos and very bored with useless measurements.

Of course, you can use the uncontrasted cathode ray tube method, but only for academic statistical purposes, not usable and practical ... but probably the results obtained will not be published in any university.

For many stereo photographers, already incorporated into the Sony era, the visual assessment (sources and moving objects) together with the accuracy of the pendulum method (it is easy to achieve a quarter of a millisecond or less) is more than enough.


“HOW good is the synchronization?  Good enough for me.
Oh, and it’s also good enough for fountain shots.”

 

“Better than the Samsung NX1000. I have no interest in measuring it. 

Folks who are most interested in a statistical analysis should be the ones who do it.”


https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34931398#122328


“The Sony cameras with multiport synchronize very well with a simple connection. Kudos to Sony for that. Yes, more and more 3D photographers are using twin Sony models to take advantage of the good synchronization..”

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34931398#122326

Focus, shoot, zoom, and video ... all always in perfect synchronization using a new device (in the world of 3D photography, of course), plug & play, lightweight, pocketable, and very cheaper ...and, in addition, it allows extreme hyper stereo (up to more than fifty meters of stereo base).

http://www.lanparte.com/wap/xwdtxq.aspx?cid=&itemid=597,       

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1379105-REG/lanparte_lrc_01_remote_controller_for_sony.html/reviews


There is no reference to 3D photography in the previous videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Et9rJjiKA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiZzDHG5mSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWvbTz7OgKc,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY1-7xlSBO4


Certainly, in spring 2018, a new era in s3D photography begun  (at least for me, excited and happy): The Sony 3D Multi-Terminal new era. It now continues and increases his chances day after day

For many people that is a big game-changer and all that is, certainly, a new world.


Best wishes. Stay safe and have a nice day.



Josep Barbera

http://phereo.com/josebarbera
https://stereopix.net/jose_barbera
https://holopix.page.link/S7K9



PS

Please see the attached pdf. I have added some information, also about your wired solution.


Hope that also can help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P63OWKaa0g
















El 2020-07-24 14:05, Werner via groups.io escribió:
Hello José,

It allows the perfect synchronization of all current Sony cameras,
thanks to the existence of the Multi-Terminal port:
The Sony VMC-MM2 cable enables the perfect sync of the current Sony
cameras through the Multi-Terminal port
 well, and where are your synchronisation tests (i mean synch
measurements, not only selected single shots)? I would like to see
your 'perfect' synchronisation results!

motorized zooms also can be a very interesting matter in 3D video
and also in 3D photo (in hyper and also in normo stereo) , but that
is not possible using the Sony VMC-MM2 cable because it was designed
to be used by Sony only for the RXO camera (so not for 3D photo) and
this cam has a fixed lens (not interchangeable), without zoom.
 Wrong conclusion, this does not work because the VMC-MM2 connects
only 3 pins: focus, shoot and GND, and not because the RX0 has a fixed
lens!

Perhaps it will be possible, in order to shoot 3D photos,
synchronized video, and zoom sync to obtain a Y branch from one
device, with two plugs in order to connect 2 twinned cams. But I
have found, inside 8 cables. I think soldering those 8 very slim
wires is a very difficult job.
 If you had ever tried that, you'd have found that a Y-splitting does
NOT work! But it seems you were already overwhelmed with the 8
wires...

Werner
_._,_._,_


Josep Barbera
 


<“Also, most of what Mr. Barbera is covering in the video is old news really”


Only old news in this video really? Are you sure?

For months a self-considered 3D expert has repeatedly claimed, here in our group, that a big disadvantage of Sony equipment over Canon (SDM), is the inability of Sony to synchronize several cameras to shoot lenticular 3D photos.


“But the true distinction here is that SDM allows synching large numbers of cameras. (...)
(...) That is impossible to do with Sony cameras”

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34931398#122337
 

Now, but not before, we all know that at least 5 wireless devices are capable of shooting an infinite number of Sony cameras, all of them perfectly synchronized and therefore they are very useful in the lenticular 3D photo.


Only old news in the video really? 

For months several colleagues have asked several times about the possibility of synchronizing video and zoom in current Sony cameras. There was no reply about that. Never any solution.

Just before the pandemic, last March 13, I proposed here to explore parallel wiring, with Y-tap, explaining my difficulty in soldering the 8 cables found inside.

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/124371


A week later (last March 19) you explained your attempt, following the path but opening a new thread with a different title, but  not reporting the results to the 3D community:

“At this point I have several Vello and Pixel releases. By getting two of the Sony remotes, I can create on with the Sony wires and another one with Vello or Pixel wires, both with Sony switches :-) “

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/72080382#124505


Following the path, Werner (expert welder, now also in the Sony 3D club) has recently announced (4 months later, last July 24) his failure, because after performing 8 perfect welds the zoom synchronization did not work, and neither the video sync, in the Sony cams.

“If you had ever tried that, you'd have found that a Y-splitting does NOT work! “

https://groups.io/g/ISU3D/message/42
 

But that failure in the results of the welding is now totally irrelevant because we all know (now, but not before :) that there are two extraordinary devices on sale that they can synchronize extraordinarily well the video and also the motorized zoom of our current Sony cameras.
 

Only old news in the video really? 

The LanParte Sony Remote Controller is wonderful: It is very small, lightweight, and pocketable since the very small paired receivers (placed in the multiterminal ports) don’t need any battery.

Its 2.4 GHz wireless control has 30 meters range, a considerable distance. That is enough to shoot photos of the wild fauna (not just birds) and that is very interesting for those who live near natural places with ecological protection.

It even works well through concrete walls indoors and certainly, that is very impressive.

That implies that both cameras can be located almost 60 meters apart. That's enough for extreme hyper stereo always controlling sync zoom and video (start/stop).

Now, but not before, we all know that at least 5 wireless devices are capable of synchronously shooting Sony cameras, from a considerable distance and therefore all of them (especially the Lanparte, more pocketable but with sufficient range) are very useful in the extreme hyper stereo photo.
 

Only old news in that video really? 

With the video, we have, now, but not before, description and information, about some devices, not only the Lanparte Controler.

Some of them can:

1.- Synchronize Sony motorized zooms.
2.- Synchronize REC / STOP video.
3.- Simultaneously shoot countless Sony cameras perfectly synchronized, very useful in 3D lenticular photography.
4.- Shoot at a considerable distance, very useful in extreme hyper stereo and wildlife photos.

It even works well through concrete walls. That is very impressive.
 

Here, you can see, in the video, all these recent news (so they aren't old news! :-) because all of us know them now… but not before.
You can see near the end of this video both devices working, focusing, and shooting (outside and also inside, in low light):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxTxS8i88ME


Can we find any previous mention of the LanParte device in the 3D ecosystems?

I have only found yours, but you refer that you tried just only one Lanparte unit in your Sony RX100 camera, and you do not speak at all about the JJC PFT-SR Controler and neither about the other three devices described in the video: Pixel RW-221/S2, Pixel TW-283, Pholsy Sony Wireless.

You did not quantify the sync of the LanParte system, not even visually (a source? a moving car?), nor also using the Aldous method or even another procedure as the CRT method. ... because “you imagined” that the sync was going to be bad.

“I tried just one unit with my Sony RX100 camera”

“I can imagine that synchronization is terrible. I was so turned off by testing one unit that I did not even try the pair”
 

Possibly the Aldous method to measure synchronization is not the most accurate but many believe that it has enough accuracy for the usual stereo photography: half a millisecond or less.

But that accuracy is of course much higher than that obtainable only with the imagination after observing only one device and only one camera working, not the pair.
 

“I can imagine that synchronization is terrible. I was so turned off by testing one unit that I did not even try the pair”
 

For all these explained reasons I think, the good news of the video isn't old, but you insist with other arguments:


“The fact that you adjust the zoom is new for the Sony but now well are the zooms matched or the exposures synchronized by using this method? There is no word about this crucial fact.”


After unboxing the three pairs, I did test them with three different Sony equipment (A6300, A6000, and A5100), looking for more certainty than my imagination making these nine different tests.


The text of the video and the text of the message report that a perfect synchronization of less than half a millisecond is achieved, similar to that achieved with the events cable VMC-MM2.

Probably you can recall that in the recent past on this list some people (trying to underestimate several good news: female DSLRKIT cable found, 3 dozen of good Sony rigs tested in the shop and perfectly synchronized, wonderful sync utility of the VMC-MM2 cable, etc) required, imperatively, to make tests that objectively measure synchronization, beyond the visual assessment of moving sources and objects.

One day after the arrival of Stereoscopy magazine where Barry Aldous described his test we tested our Sony 3D rigs using the laser-pendulum method with wonderful results: half millisecond or less.


https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/119435

http://phereo.com/image/5bcd9ab8e7e56470500001e5

http://forum.phereo.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=296&start=20#p1453



Some people on this list insisted that this was still not enough sync information...

But many others, including you, considered that there was already enough information and in fact they entered the Sony 3D club (in your case with several rigs: RX100VII, RX0 and RX10, etc) without waiting for doubtful measurements with cathode tubes.


“You are not mistaken, I am shooting with a variety of twin Sony cameras”.

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/124993


“HOW good is the synchronization?  Good enough for me.
Oh, and it’s also good enough for fountain shots.”
 

“Better than the Samsung NX1000. I have no interest in measuring it.
Folks who are most interested in a statistical analysis should be the ones who do it.”

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34931398#122328



“The Sony cameras with multiport synchronize very well with a simple connection. Kudos to Sony for that. Yes, more and more 3D photographers are using twin Sony models to take advantage of the good synchronization..”

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34931398#122326


Certainly, exhaustive measurements can be made for academic purposes (even using the non proved CRT program), with detailed statistics, but it can be irrelevant in practice, useful only for the purpose of personal display but totally useless.
I think that the Barry Aldous method is easy to do, practical and that its results are sufficiently informative since you can easily achieve great precision of a quarter of a millisecond.


Apparently for a long time you have been intending to do detailed Sony sync tests, not with the LanParte pair but with the Sony cable:

“I hope one day (soon) I will be set up to measure synchronization and give a more precise answer.”

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34931398#122328



“I have and use a pair of Sony RX100 (v.6) cameras, and have the equipment for testing, so I need to get my act together and do some testing, preferably before my workshop”

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/76111572#126342


It is obvious that you have joined the Sony 3D club (with several rigs: RX100, RX0, RX10, etc), without waiting to do the statistically proper CRT or Aldous tests, despite the fact you already have the adequate equipment for testing.

But before making correct pendulum measurements I think it is necessary to reflect and understand the physical reasoning of the Aldous sync test.


“Why was the test done at 1/50 shutter speed? This is a very slow speed if you are interested in high synchronization. If you want to photograph things moving fast then you will use a faster shutter speed to freeze motion, so the choice of 1/50 is puzzling. Most tests are done at 1/500 to 1/1000s.”

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/124382


I think that your transcribed reasoning is not correct because it has very little logic...

Making the Barry Aldous test you do not need a high shoot speed, because you don't must be interested in photographing the laser-pendulum (it moves very fast, certainly) because you must be interested in photographing the trace of the laser light over the ruler in order to measure millimeters.

You should try to freeze the light trace on the ruler, not the pendulum,...

In fact, if you increase the shooting speed (tests done at 1/500 to 1/1000s will be very puzzling....),  then the sensitivity of the Barry Aldous test decreases proportionally because the trace traveled by the laser light will be less.



Here you can read a message where it is explained that the accuracy of the Aldous method can be increased indefinitely decreasing, but NOT increasing the shooting speed (or alternatively increasing the pendulum speed):

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/122256


In addition, you can read the original article written by Barry in the Stereoscopy magazine number 115, Issue 3.2018, with good illustrations by David Kuntz.  Probably the current editor of our ISU magazine can help you to find this article. I hope.

Best regards.

Have a nice day and please keep safe.

Josep Barberà

http://phereo.com/josebarbera
https://stereopix.net/jose_barbera
https://holopix.page.link/S7K9

http://www.lanparte.com/wap/xwdtxq.aspx?cid=&itemid=597
 


There is no reference to 3D photography in the previous videos:

El 2020-07-22 15:39, George Themelis escribió:

Besides, all the information is on the video and the email. You
don’t need another presentation. Just watch the video.

Have in mind that the NSA workshops are only 20 minutes long, not 50
minutes as it was in the “live” conventions.

I give a workshop on twin camera stereo that will cover the Sonys too.
But in 20 minutes, I can only scratch the surface.

Also, most of what Mr. Barbera is covering in the video is old news
really. There is nothing new about the idea of triggering two cameras
with wireless remotes from a distance. I mention that on my blog for
the NX1000 cameras. The fact that you adjust the zoom is new for the
Sony but now well are the zooms matched or the exposures syncrhronized
by using this method? There is no word about this crucial fact.

George



FROM: George Themelis via groups.io
SENT: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:28 AM
TO: main@photo-3d.groups.io
SUBJECT: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony
multi-terminal era

The NSA virtual conference workshop schedule is full. You can see it
here:

http://www.3d-con.com/workshops.php

George




FROM: robert mcafee via groups.io
SENT: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:23 AM
TO: main@photo-3d.groups.io
SUBJECT: Re: [Photo-3d] May, 1: A new era in 3D photography?: Sony
multi-terminal era

Mr. Barbera, you should consider giving a presentation on the Sony
cameras for the online only NSA conference in early August. I believe
they were still seeking presenters.


_._,_._,_


Josep Barbera
 


Mr. Barbera, you should consider giving a presentation on the
Sony cameras for the online only NSA conference in early August.
I believe they were still seeking presenters.


Thanks for your message. Your words are very kind and probably undeserved by me.

But already it has been explained that the NSA virtual conference workshop schedule was full, and I’m not a member of the National Stereoscopic Association, only registered online in the virtual 3D-Con 2020.


“The NSA virtual conference workshop schedule is full. You can see it here:
http://www.3d-con.com/workshops.php”



In addition, people have insisted on the good quality of the video, saying that it shows sufficient and detailed information and that there is even more information in the email (that is, in a message to this group):


“Besides, all the information is on the video and the email. You don’t need another presentation. Just watch the video.”


That phrase seems to be produced in an impetuous and forceful way ... but it probably implies a good assessment of the quality of the video and the good information it contains. :-):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxTxS8i88ME



Thank you, again for your very kind words.


During a lot of years we, all the 3D photo lovers,  dreamed of obtaining a good 3D camera with the same quality of the cameras that were appearing in the stores for 2D flat photography, but now we have 3 dozen cameras and hundreds of possible combinations to obtain excellent 3D equipment always with perfect synchronization. :-), including shoot, zoom, and video.

According to an unverified rumor, another people tried to synchronize the discontinued A5000 cam using a wired rig, but they obtained poor results: only between 4 and 8 milliseconds and for that reason, they returned to SDM. That are identical results (4-8 ms.) we now get if we do NOT FOLLOW the known ritual, also described in the RX0 camera manual (page 22):

“Shooting still images
- Press the SHUTTER button HALFWAY DOWN to focus. When the image is in focus, a beep sounds and the focus indicator (z) lights.
- Press the SHUTTER button FULLY DOWN to shoot an image.”

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4690/46902871M.pdf

On the other hand, the current Sony cameras have one clear advantage if you like action photography: that is the burst mode with very good sync.

Probably now the most advanced and also pocketable Sony cam is the new travel cam (also for vloggers) Sony VZ-1:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8609536749/hands-on-with-the-sony-zv-1



Now, in the new Sony 3D photo era, all we have the possibility of obtaining extraordinary 3D equipment, very cheap (from A5100, 350 euros) or very expensive (until A7R IV, 4000 euros) much better than a hypothetical and future 3D camera, because the Sony twinned cameras allow shooting with a variable stereo base (not possible with any future and hypothetical two-lens camera with fixed stereo base).
 
Now all of us, 3D photo lovers, can have equipment with the same technological level that the 2D flat photographers:


https://photographylife.com/sony-rx100-series-comparison

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6975583891/sony-a6000-a6100-a6300-a6400-a6500-a6600-what-s-the-difference-and-which-should-i-buy

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A6300-versus-Sony-A5100-versus-Sony-A6000___1072_967_942


There are many very important considerations for both photography systems, stereo, and flat photography:

- Sensor size and quality
- RAW support
- Color depth and dynamic range
- Pixel sensor size in microns
- Number of focus points
- Face detection focus
- Continuous shooting at high resolution
- Maximum light sensitivity and ISO without noise.
- Faster max shutter
- Image stabilization
- AE bracketing range
- Resolution of the screen and viewfinder
- Environmental sealing
- Tilting screen, resolution and luminosity
- Viewfinder
- Battery life
- WIFI
- GPS
- Bluetooth
- Flash
- NFC connectivity
- Size
- Weight
 
In all of them, the current Sony cameras have excellent, or the best performance.

 
Sony offers (for shot s3D pics and video) a simple plug-and-play sync solution, extremely reliable and precise and we can choose from 4 dozen Sony Alpha cameras, according to our budget and our purposes (from only 350 euros, A5100, until 4000 euros, A7R IV).
 
Every stereo photo fan can select your own 3D Sony rig with 50 models for select them:

- Sony VZ-1
-A7 (I, II, III), A7R (I, II, III, IV), A7S (I, II, III) A9 (I, II) = 12 models mirrorless and Full Frame
-NEX-3N, A5000, A5100, A6000, A6100, A6300, A6400, A6500, A6600 = 9 models of mirrorless APS-C
-A3000, A3500
-A58, A68, A77II, A99II
-RX0 (I, II)
-RX1R  II
-RX10  II, III, IV
-RX100 II, III, IV, V, VI, VII
-HX300, HX350, HX400
-HX50, HX60, HX80, HX50, HX90, WX500  (with an external trigger?)
 
Always the latest version of each model is exaggeratedly expensive because sometimes it only adds a relevant novelty, but that triples the price of the previous version, but in return, all previous versions are manufactured and sold at really low prices, decreasing as new versions appear.

For example, the appearance of the 5-axis stabilization implied that the last cameras of the APS-C series will double the price, due to the improvement of this hardware.

On the contrary, some improvements, such as the wonderful automatic eyes focusing are applied to older models (A6000) with only a firmware update.

Also happens that some of the latest developments from Sony are applied immediately to the last camera that appears on the market and they are not reserved for the superior model. In fact, the cameras A7III and A7RiV have some characteristics that surpass the A9, (which was marketed before) because its application has not been reserved for the next appearance of the Sony A9II.
 
Certainly, the menu of Sony cameras is very little intuitive (that helps to want models with many external buttons to make easy quick settings changes), but investigating the abundant possibilities of the menu, it provide pleasant surprises, not sufficiently explained by Sony.
 
On the other hand, the Field of View (FOV) depends, obviously, of the cameras, of the lens, and also of the adapters, including the metabones (which can preserve the automatism).

In fact:

A: I have used the lenses of the old NEX-5 cameras in the Full Frame A7S, without problems because the mounts (E/FE) are identical and the software recognizes them (but decreases the resolution, that is, the total number of megapixels).

B: Now I am using Full Frame A7S lenses in my current A6300 rig and the focal length increases by 50% because the cropping factor is 1.5.


In all Sony mirrorless cameras, (APS-C and Full Frame) the tripod socket is exactly centered with the lens, so it is very easy to use bottom-to-bottom rigs using only a screw.

The minimum separation using the bottom to bottom configuration (portrait mode) is 70 mm (A5100) and 74 (A6000). Those minimum separations even can be reduced by replacing the double screw (with central disc) with another screw having a thinner disc or, alternatively, with a single screw (without head) of adequate length for joining both cams.

The cam resolutions are enough (4000 x 6000 px) to get mpo’s with Full HD (1920 x 1080) resolution after cropping in landscape mode (horizontal).

We have never mounted a Z rig (for that reason we do not have measurements about its narrowest lens separation), because:

1.- That makes it very difficult to read the information on both screens because obviously we need to see that all the parameters remain similar in both cams

2.- The Z-configuration also makes it difficult to change the settings of both cameras according to the circumstances.
 
 

Using the side-by-side rigs, the minimum separation is 140 mm (A6000) and 135 mm (A5100). My old NEX-5 devices have a minimum separation of 114 mm.
 
These unorthodox stereo bases can be compensated, as already mentioned. No problem with the stereo base of the current Sony Alpha cameras, because we can correct that:
 
a) Walking only one step back, before shooting, to increase the distance to the nearest object.
b) Varying the focal length, following a 3D photo golden rule.
c) Using a bottom to bottom s3D rig to decrease the stereo base.
d) Reducing the size of the image pair, because half the size implies half disparity.

Obviously, in everyday practice ... only in an elevator, or in a car, or in a confessional, or in a toilet it is not possible to use 10-14 cm stereo base rigs, because in all other real-life situations if the main subject is too close, it is very easy to go back a few steps before shooting.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=sony_a5100&attr13_1=sony_a6300&attr13_2=samsung_nx500&attr13_3=samsung_nx2000&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=3200&attr16_1=3200&attr16_2=3200&attr16_3=3200&attr171_1=1&attr171_2=1&attr171_3=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.15522652084757355&y=-0.9429836489702461

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-year-ends-how-it-began-sony-a6000-topseller-at-amazon/



The mirrorless cams (APS-C series (Sony A6x00 cams) and Full Frame Sony A7x ) has the possibility of changing the lens and can be a good option::
 
That is decisive for many combinations of configuration because each different lens determines to obtain, in fact, another camera with different possibilities.

The E mount (of APS-C cams) and the FE mount (of FullFrame cams) are interchangeable. That is, all lenses designed for full-frame cams can be used with APS-C cams and reciprocally the FullFrame cam's firmware allows the acceptance of APS-C lenses with a logical reduction of the resolution. Also is possible to use the old Sony NEX lens.

The possibilities of selection are very wide, combining cameras with lens:

A) Cams:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6975583891/sony-a6000-a6100-a6300-a6400-a6500-a6600-what-s-the-difference-and-which-should-i-buy

B) Lens

http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/cscs/lens_body/index.php?mdl=ILCE-6300&area=us&lang=en&loc=en_US

https://www.dxomark.com/best-sony-lenses


Then, 52 Sony lens x 21 cams (E and FE mounts) = 1,092 different possible s3D stereo rigs, all of them made using Sony cam + only Sony lens.

But there are lenses from other brands: not only from Sony and from Sigma.

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/cas/service/se_mount



The Sony Alpha A6300 vs the previous models has an advantage (in addition to the automatic focus to the eyes in animals and people making portraits) very rarely mentioned (which most Sony cameras do not have, except those Full Frame cams of professional level):

It has a "silent mode", very useful in street photography, in order to not draw attention to the sounds of the shots. This silent mode is also very useful at specific times when a repeated camera sound could disturb in a concurrence.

On the other hand, the Sony Alpha 6300, using ISO 3200, (even ISO 4000, without noise), offers more brightness than that captured by human eyes.

That and much more is very easy for the latest technology from Sony.


Another very interesting feature of modern Sony cameras, including the RX100 series, is that you can install abundant, excellent, and cheap applications to increase creativity (but not in the latest professional models so as not to offend possibly susceptible people:-)

Here, in each application are specified the compatible cameras:

https://www.playmemoriescameraapps.com/portal


Some Sony cam apps offer amazing results:

https://www.playmemoriescameraapps.com/portal/usbdetail.php?eid=IS9104-NPIA09014_00-000006


Also, recently we all know that some devices (JJC PFT-SR 2.4G Control and especially the Lanparte Controler) allow:

1.- Synchronize Sony motorized zooms.
2.- Synchronize REC / STOP video.
3.- Shoot at a considerable distance, very useful in photos of wildlife and extreme hyper stereo.
4.- Simultaneously shoot innumerable perfectly synchronized Sony cameras, very useful in 3D lenticular photography.

They even work well through concrete walls. That is very impressive.


It is time to enjoy the best photographic technology, present in the cameras with the best synchronization for s3D photography: the current Sony Alpha cams.

Certainly, that is a new era in s3D photography (at least for me, excited and happy).

For many people, day after day, that is a game-changer.

All the best and, please, stay safe.

 
Josep Barbera
http://phereo.com/josebarbera
https://stereopix.net/jose_barbera
https://holopix.page.link/S7K9







El 2020-07-22 15:27, George Themelis escribió:
The NSA virtual conference workshop schedule is full. You can see it
here:

http://www.3d-con.com/workshops.php

George



El 2020-07-22 15:13, robert mcafee via groups.io escribió:
Mr. Barbera, you should consider giving a presentation on the Sony
cameras for the online only NSA conference in early August. I believe
they were still seeking presenters.




 On Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 08:42:15 AM EDT, Josep Barbera
<jmbarbera@...> wrote:

Sony 3D Photography ... what's new about zoom sync, video sync and

extreme hiper stereo?

Please watch the explanatory video here:

https://youtu.be/LxTxS8i88ME

The Sony VMC-MM2 cable enables the perfect sync of the current Sony

cameras through the Multi-Terminal port, as discussed some time ago:

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/120124

http://forum.phereo.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=296&start=10

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/jose-barbera-marti-using-the-sony-vmc-mm2-cable-for-sony-alpha-rigs/

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34930791?p=Created,,,20,1,0,0

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34930676#119324

Compact cameras (travel cams) can be a good choice:

https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/3d-fotografie-mit-sony-ingrid-ben/42132755

Now, Probably, the best option is the Sony ZV-1:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/cyber-shot-compact-cameras/zv-1

But surely the most versatile (larger sensor and interchangeable
lenses)

are the mirror less Sony cams:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3979618

Synchronization is only possible following the two-step ritual  (focus


first and shoot later), and for this reason the first attempts failed

(according to some rumors), because without these ritual (shooting

without previous focus) the synchronization is very bad: 4, 8 or more

milliseconds. Infrared devices failed because it doesn't allow that

two-step ritual. Some people also tried that, in 2011, but also
without

success:

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/topic/34906135#81549

On the other hand, the possibility of also synchronizing zoom and
video

has been discussed in various forums, including this one:

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/124370?p=,,,20,0,0,0::relevance,,barbera,20,2,120,71595794

https://photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/94942

https://groups.io/g/ISU3D/topic/75522577#9

Three difficulties appear when we make 3D photography and 3D video
using

the current Sony Alpha cams.

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2

    cable for make hyper stereo

2) Get video sync

3) Get zoom sync

Problem 1: The limited length of the Sony VMC-MM2 cable only allows a

cam separation about 60 cm and therefore we must look for other

solutions to achieve greater camera separation when making 3D hyper

stereo photography.

To capture distant and moving objects (with depth, this is in 3D), the


hyper-stereo photographer must place the two cameras distant and

parallel to each other (even several meters: “extreme hyper stereo

photos”) in order to capture two sufficiently different
perspectives, so

that our brain, uniting the two photos perceive good depth, even when

the objects are very far away: 200 meters, or even more.

For this reason, hyper stereo photography is a type of augmented

reality, because it manages to obtain 3D stereo photos (also videos)
of

distant subjects showing depth between them, despite the fact that the


human eye cannot see depth (only perspective, not stereopsis...) when

the subjects are very far away.

Sometimes inexperienced eyes (their corresponding brain) interpret
that

augmented reality (surprising depth and roundness of distant objects)
as

authentic miniatures (that is the surprising “Lilliput -or
miniature-

effect”).

Problem 2: On the other hand, achieving video synchronization using
the

VMC-MM2 cable is only possible in the latest camera models. Sony
informs

that is only possible if the firmware allows that the recording
“start”

can be assigned to the trigger button. From the manual “To
synchronize

video REC/STOP, the main camera must have "Movie with shutter"
assigned

to its release button, following these settings: Menu:-- > Movie 3:

Movie with shutter button ON”

https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/cscs/accessories/compatibility.php?area=gb&lang=es&mdl=VMC-MM2&cat=3

Perhaps video synchronization is possible in all other Sony models,

through a future firmware update, but I think it could be convenient
to

find now a suitable solution.

Problem 3: Getting a perfect Synchronization of the Sony motorized
zooms

also can be a very interesting matter in 3D video and also in 3D photo


(in hyper and also in normo stereo) , but that is not possible using
the

Sony VMC-MM2 cable because it was designed to be used by Sony only for


the RXO camera (so not for 3D photo) and this cam has a fixed lens
(not

interchangeable), without zoom.

Some colleagues, 3D lovers, have tried to synchronizing two paired
Sony

zooms using mechanical means, such as rubbers, tires, and straps, but

with little success.

Researching to solve these 3 problems...

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2 cable for make hyper stereo

2) Video sync and

3) Zoom sync

...  we can find interesting devices, now for sale in the market:
wired

and wireless devices:

A.- Wired devices

A1:-  Cable extenders for the Multi-Terminal port to increase the

distance between both cameras making hyper stereo photography.

A2: - Useful wired devices to synchronize the zoom of both cameras:

.- Sony Stativ VCT-SGR1

.- Sony GPVPT1.CE7(Minitrypod)

.- Sony RM-VPR1 (Minitrypod)

      and several clones...

B.- Wireless devices

B1.- Pixel RW-221/S2 controller:

B2.- Pixel TW-283/S2 remote controller

B3.- Pholsy Wireless Remote with an intervalometer.

B4.- JJC 2.4G 100M Wireless Remote Control for Sony

B5.- LanParte Wireless Remote Control for Sony.

Here is a short post with a overview of them:

A.- Wired devices

A1:- Trying to increase the distance between both cameras making hyper


stereo photography

As previously mentioned, some brands (DSLRKIT and others ) manufacture


cables (female and male) that, joined, can synchronize two Sony
cameras,

in a similar way to how the Sony cable works: Plug & Play. Using these
2

cables both cameras can be master and also slave, interchangeably.

Between these 2 cables (female and male) can be connected an extender

cable (2, 3, 5M long or more) with 2.5 mm plugs:

Female and male cables:

https://savemoney.es/asin/B00M6N0FQ8

https://savemoney.es/asin/B00KWXK6CC

Cable extender:

https://www.ebay.es/itm/5m-Stereo-2-5mm-Jack-Extension-Cable-5m-Extender-Lead-Male-to-Female-New/251175532261?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Mini-2-5mm-Jack-Extension-Male-to-Female-Socket-in-2-3-5-Metre-Lengths/140878173940?hash=item20ccfe56f4:m:mFhzQVo-ycaYtoZ1Ro8mYmw

That allows hyper stereo photos taken with a long distance between
both

cameras ( in order to capture two sufficiently different perspectives,


so that brain can perceive depth between objects very far away)) but

that not allows video rec sync and zoom synchronization.

A2: - Useful wired devices to synchronize the zoom of both cameras (or


more, for lenticular pics)

They are also very useful to shoot hyper stereo photos or videos,

allowing an increase in the distance between the cams.

Several inside cables allow controlling focus, shooting, and also zoom


from external control, keeping the camera without any vibration on a

tripod.

They can be very useful in 2D video recording, but they are very

difficult to use for 3D stereo photography (because then both paired

cameras must have the same focal length at all times..) or 3D stereo

video (then, in addition, we need to synchronize the start and the
stop

recording).

Sony and several brands have marketed various wired devices to
remotely

control the motorized zoom of the Alpha cameras (zoom, in addition to

focusing, shot, on and off). There are various prices, in accordance

with its sophistication, even with tripod function, as Sony RM-VPR1,

VCT-SGR1, Sony GPVPT1.CE7 and several clones.

The simplest Sony cable (RM-VPR1, 60€, no tripod), has several
clones:

Pholsy, Fotga, Mcplus, JJC SR-F2, and two brands (Topiky and Fotga)
make

a similar cable, but with a longer length.

https://savemoney.es/asin/B07Y9R48LH

https://savemoney.es/asin/B07VZZL1Q9

Sony Stativ VCT-SGR1 : Minitrypod:

https://savemoney.es/asin/Sony%20Stativ%20VCT-SGR1

Sony GPVPT1.CE7 - Minitrypod : 100 euros :

https://savemoney.es/asin/Sony%20GPVPT1.CE7

The obsolete RMT-VP1K (and other infrared devices) is not suitable for


stereo photography since a good and perfect synchronization always

requires two steps: focus (first) and shoot (later), but that is not

possible using any infrared shooting device:

https://www.sony.es/electronics/tripodes-mandos-distancia-camaras-lentes-intercambiables/rmt-vp1k

https://savemoney.es/asin/B074SCK3HS

https://savemoney.es/asin/RMTDSLR2.CE

The Sony GP-VPT2BT bluetooth device is also not suitable for 3D photos


due to an identical reason: absence of the two ritual steps: focus

(first) and shooting (later):
https://savemoney.es/asin/Sony%20GP-VPT2BT

In addition, SmallRig sells a wooden handgrip with a remote trigger
for

Sony cams, also with remote video start/stop.

www.smallrig.com/smallrig-right-side-wooden-hand-grip-with-record-start-stop-remote-trigger-for-sony-mirrorless-cameras-hsr2511.html

We have used two (one is Sony, the other is Fotga). The zoom works

perfectly on the motorized lens, and “on, off, focus, shot” also
work

fine. All that is very useful in 2D photo, always without any
vibration.

Perhaps it will be possible, in order to shoot 3D photos, synchronized


video and zoom sync to obtain a Y branch from one device, with two
plugs

in order to connect 2 twinned cams. But I have found, inside 8 cables.
I

think soldering those 8 very slim wires is a very difficult job.

B.- Wireless devices

There are several devices that allow, wirelessly, to shoot both
cameras

simultaneously with very good synchronization with a disparity between


both cams of less than half a millisecond.

Of course, just like when we are using cables, synchronization only

works by doing the well-known two-step ritual: first focus
(half-press)

then shooting (full pressing). For this reason, devices that work by

infrared (the obsolete RMT-VP1K and others)  or Bluetooth (Sony

GP-VPT2BT and RMTP1BT.SYU) are not useful.

But the wireless devices using 2.4GHz can be very useful in hyper
stereo

photography (3D photography of very distant subjects) because then
both

cameras can be fired synchronously with great separation between them,


shooting to fireworks, landscapes, distant fauna, etc. The distance

between the shutter and the cameras can be 60, 80, or 100 meters and
for

that reason, the two cameras can be 120, 160, or 200 meters apart from


each other, with the shutter in the middle.

Using the wireless devices it is very easy to make extreme hyper
stereo

and also, in addition, some models can solve the already commented

problems two and three: video sync and also zoom sync. We are going to


see 5 different devices of this type.

B1.- Pixel RW-221/S2 controller

Without an LCD display. It allows us to trigger the camera wirelessly
up

to 100 meters. It is the simplest model (allowing only on, off, focus

and shoot), without zoom sync and without video sync, but very useful
in

hyper stereo photography.

Four modes of shooting: single shooting, high-speed continuous
shooting,

BULB, and 4s delay shooting.

One transmitter is able to fire multiple receivers at the same time

(that also can be very useful when taking lenticular photography): via


the well-known two-step ritual (half-press to autofocus the camera and


full press to shoot).

https://savemoney.es/asin/Pixel%20RW-221/S2

https://savemoney.es/asin/B01CJ5UBG6

B2.- Pixel TW-283 / S2 controller

With an LCD display. It works wirelessly up to 80 meters.

FSK 2.4 GHz Wireless Control System: It features no directionality and


ultra-powerful anti-interference ability. With 30 channels for
options,

it can avoid interference caused by other similar devices.

4 modes for shutter release control: simple single shooting, BULB

shooting, delay shooting, and timer schedule shooting

6 setting for timing control: delay timer, long exposure time,
interval

time, number of shoots, repeat shooting interval time and repeat times

Despite the 6 settings for time control, it doesn't have a significant


advantage for taking s3D photos and is more expensive than the
previous

model (Pixel RW-221 / S2)

https://savemoney.es/asin/B017GY5KWA

https://savemoney.es/asin/B017GY5KWA

B3.- Pholsy Wireless controller (with an intervalometer)

With an LCD display. It allows us to trigger the camera wirelessly up
to

60 meters.

4 types shutter: S (single shooting), C (continuous shooting), B
(Bulb),

2S (2 seconds delay) and 5 timer functions: Delay timer, interval,
long

exposure time, N (number of frames setting). Also with BKLN (Auto

bracketing for HDR, shutter release with instant, continuous 3, 5 or 7


shots).

None of these 3 models (B1, B2, B3) can synchronize video recording or


allow synchronizing the zoom of Sony cameras.

https://savemoney.es/asin/B01NCYY1LW

B4.-JJC 2.4G 100M Sony Wireless Controler

Without an LCD display. Works at a frequency of 2.4GHz. That allows
the

transmitter to trigger the receiver from 100 meters away, therefore it


is possible almost 200 meters of separation between both cameras

One transmitter is able to fire multiple receivers at the same time.

That can be very useful when taking lenticular 3D photography.

Features multi-functions - power on / off, video start / stop,
focusing

/ shooting, zooming and also ... displaying grid lines.

Transmitter (and also the paired receivers, placed in the flash slot)

needs a standard battery.

https://savemoney.es/asin/B078ZC8DYD

B5.- LanParte Wireless Remote Control for Sony.

Without an LCD display.

2.4Ghz wireless control with 30 meters range. That implies that both

cameras can be located almost 60 meters apart.

It controls multiple receivers and cameras to sync shooting, sync zoom


(when power zoom lens is used), and also sync video as well

(start/stop).

It is very useful in hyper stereo photography (60 meters is the maxim

stereo base), and, in addition, it can controlling sync zoom and video


(start/stop).

Only the transmitter needs a standard battery, but the very small
paired

receivers (placed in the multiterminal ports) don’t need a battery.

https://savemoney.es/asin/B07986K6ZF

These two last extraordinary devices for the Sony cams (JJC 2.4G and

LanParte Wireless Remote) allow us to shoot wirelessly (with a

miraculously synchronized zoom and video) using two or more perfectly

synchronized cameras (separated since few centimeters until 200 meters


in order to shoot 3D hyper stereo pics).

For these reasons they are a perfect complement of the Sony VMC-MM2

cable, already discussed here a few months ago:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/jose-barbera-marti-using-the-sony-vmc-mm2-cable-for-sony-alpha-rigs/

The LanParte Wireless device (it has very small battery-free
receivers),

allows a separation between the paired cams of almost 120 meters. That


distance is usually enough in 3D hyper stereo photography.

If we even need more separation (up to 200 meters), we can use the JJC


2.4G 100M Wireless Controller. It is a bigger and heavier device
because

it also has batteries in their receivers.

LanParte Wireless <---- versus  ----> JJC 2.4G 100M Controller

The LanParte Wireless device (it has very small battery-free
receivers)

allows a separation between the paired cams of almost 120 meters.

That distance is usually enough in 3D hyper stereo photography.

If we need even more separation (up to 200 meters), we can use

the JJC 2.4G 100M Wireless Controller, but it is a bigger and

heavier device because it also has batteries in their receivers,

not only in the transmitter as the Lanparte.

You can use one of these two last devices (JJC wireless Control and

LanParte Wireless) to solve all three big problems in Sony 3D

photography, exposed:

1) The short length of Sony VMC-MM2 cable for make hyper stereo

2) Video sync and

3) Zoom sync

Therefore, these devices can greatly increase the versatility of Sony

cameras when we make 3D photography or 3D video.

We now have 3D equipment of quality and versatility identical to that
of

2D flat photography professionals !

Good luck with Sony's new era of 3D photography !!

Enjoy all those possibilities !!!

Best regards

José Barberà Martí

elxjob@...

(20/6/20)(20/7/22)

PS

Please watch the explanatory video here:

https://youtu.be/LxTxS8i88ME

https://stereopix.net/jose_barbera

https://holopix.page.link/S7K9

http://phereo.com/josebarbera

Attachments:

1.JPG: https://Photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/attachment/126139/0

2.JPG: https://Photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/attachment/126139/1

3.JPG: https://Photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/attachment/126139/2

Links:
------
[1] https://Photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/message/126140
[2] https://groups.io/mt/75723481/2020442
[3] https://Photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/post
[4] https://Photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/editsub/2020442
[5] https://Photo-3d.groups.io/g/main/leave/defanged


Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France)
 
Edited

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 07:35 AM, Josep Barbera wrote:
Probably now the most advanced and also pocketable Sony cam is the new travel cam (also for vloggers) Sony VZ-1:
I prefer the Sony RX100, because the VZ-1 does not have a viewfinder, so in bright sun it is difficult to see its screen.
In the picture below, people seing my RX100 + tripod + remote pairs told me: "You are the James Bond of photography!" LOL



--
Laurent


Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France)
 

Here is the picture lost in my previous post:

In the picture below, people seeing my RX100 + tripod + remote pairs told me: "You are the James Bond of photography!" LOL

--
Laurent


Josep Barbera
 

... RX100 IV, with 70 meters stereo base ...

I think the resulting scapes and clouds will likely be very impressive ... even more so than your 3D equipment. :-)

Enjoy both !.

Best regards, and please keep safe.

Josep Barberà

http://phereo.com/josebarbera
https://stereopix.net/jose_barbera
https://holopix.page.link/S7K9


PS
Your book about Toulouse is also in Spain:

https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/2951660049/
https://www.amazon.fr/s?k=Laurent+DOLDI&__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&ref=nb_sb_noss

El 2020-08-16 14:12, Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France) escribió:


Here is the picture lost in my previous post:
In the picture below, people seeing my RX100 + tripod + remote pairs
told me: "You are the James Bond of photography!" LOL
--
Laurent
Attachments:
* 20200711_123407_LD_small.jpg [1]
* 20200711_123407_LD_small.jpg [2]
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-------------------------


Antonio F.G.
 

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 07:12 AM, Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France) wrote:
Here is the picture lost in my previous post:
In the picture below, people seeing my RX100 + tripod + remote pairs told me: "You are the James Bond of photography!" LOL
Very nice place! This illustrates the way to make hyper stereos with a 70m base: place at the top of a cliff, so there is no near objects in the foreground.

I am also very fond of hyper-stereos. But it is difficult, first I must find a top of a cliff from which to shoot. Then I have to find two places on the cliff that are:
a) separated ~70m
b) at similar horizontal level,
c) approximately perpendicular to the scene you want to shoot
d) have a way to get to them without killing myself:-)  

I guess there are no corona-virus up there:-)

Regards
   Antonio


Mark McAndrew
 

The Wireless controller referred to as "B4" in this last post is also known as JJC SR-F2W.
It's only issue when connected to SONY A5100 is that the zoom is at times not stepped equally on both cameras. (Unfortunately on the A5100 model, there doesn't appear to be any zoom step control within the SONY menu. If it did have this feature, as many SONY cameras do, that may help remedy this problem!)

The cameras synchronisation performance using this wireless controller was measured using CRT method. The results were reasonable, but out of 20 test exposures, 2 exposures had a mis-sync of 13ms (not sure why it was so bad!!!)  While the remaining 18  test exposures were between 0.07mS and 1.46mS. Of those 18 test exposures about 65% were better than 1/1000 second and 30% were better than 1/5000 second.

Overall test summary follows (including the bad synchronisation exposures):
Minimum Mis-Sync (ms):    0.07         Average Mis-Sync (ms):    1.81     
Maximum Mis-Sync (ms):    13.22         Average Deviation:    2.27     


Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France)
 

I think the resulting scapes and clouds will likely be very impressive
The peak was too narrow to have enough base for the distant clouds, I would have needed over 100 m.
Next time I hope to get better conditions (beautiful clouds and a large base)

Your book about Toulouse is also in Spain
Excellent, my distributor is working well.
--
Laurent


Werner Bloos
 

Hello Mr. Barberas,

Please, please stopp claiming that Sony twin rigs have perfect sych, since:
a: you never proved it by providing ANY synch measurements
b: from technical point of view it is NOT possible to have (constant) perfect synch with twin rigs

OK, let me explain why it is not possible to have a perfect synch with a twin rig: in a twin rig the cameras run independent from eachother, except they ate genlocked. Genlocking is not implemented on photo cameras, even not at high end expensive models - genlocking can only be found in the area of semi/professional video/movie cameras.

Now lets have a look how a camera works: explained in simple words a camera is a simple computer system running an own operating system (called firmware) which needs to perform a number of tasks - tasks like displaying a live preview or waiting for any user action like pressing a button, schooting images or vides, saving the images on a SD card e.t.c. Usually all these tasks are run one by one since in a camera we do have only a single processor, not like on a modern PC with multiple cores and a multitasking operating system. All these tasks run in a cycle which is repeated all the time. The duration of one cycle is predefined mainly by the firmware and which recording mode is selected. The duration of a cycle often is coupled with the duration of all needed tasks which need to be run, or the duration of the tasks which cannot be interrupted. One of these tasks is the live preview on the cameras screen which cannot be interrupted otherwise you will get a flickering screen. So in worst case a cycle duration is 1/30s if screen is refreshed 30 times per second.

Within one cycle one of the running functions is watching for pressed buttons. If camera detects a pressed button, it will run additonal parts of the firmware which perform these functions like shooting a picture. Now you are wrong if you think that if shutter button is pressed, camera will shoot at once! No, in most cases the schooting process is done at a later position, it may even be possible that shooting is done 1/30s later since other tasks need to finish first (like the  screen refresh)

OK now lets have a look at a twin rig. After the cameras were powered on both will end in continously running these cycles, BUT it does not mean that thse cycles do run in synch! One cycle may be ahead or behind the other one - in worst case 1/30s! Synching the cycles is only possible with genlocking, but we do not have genlocking with photo cameras. As a result your synch may be somewhere between perfect and 1/30s (worst case)

What is a perfect synch? A perfect synch is if missynch is exact 0.0000000s ( you may add as many zeros in front or after the '.'  NO, here we do not have any freedom of interpretation!)

Now how can sych be improved? First lets have a look at the (electrical) coupling methods (i do intensionally NOT use the term 'synchronisation method') for a twin cameras:
A. Direct wireing of focus and shooting buttons which includes coupling methods using the remote control ports. In fact here are only 3 signals involved: focus, shooting and GND (ground). This  method is often used e.g wirh y-splitted remote cables , even the Sony VMC-MM2 cable uses only this method or direct wired cameras where these signals are routed out with wires from inside the cameras. Since this method lets the cameras run  totally independent we cannot speak here about sychrononising the cameras, if you want to have the term 'synchronisation' here then you need to call this either 'NO synchronisation' or 'passive synchronisation'

B: a coupling method which minimises synch error, or active reduces synch error or eliminates synch error. Last method is when cameras are genlocked (= perfect synch), but forget this method sice it is not available for photo cameras. An active reduction of the synch is only possible if the system has access to the internal software e.g by being able to change the cycle start (synch the cameras) or has direct access to to shooting routines. This method is available and known as SDM/CHDK or Magic Latern for Canon cameras. Here we are in the range of (median missynch) of 1/10000s to 1/20000s - depending on the camera model.
Ok, how can we minimise synch error? This is done by simply POWERING ON both cameras simmultanously! What happens here when cameras are powered on at the same tim? In fact cameras boot up at the same time and their cycle starts almost identical. This improves synch by factor 2.5 to 10 compared to the simple passive sychronisation described at coupling method A. The missych with simmultanous powered up rigs is round about 1/4000s, whereas if using the simple merhod A only 1/400 to 1/1000s. Note: in order to take advantage of this synch improvement methods you need two identical cameras (including its submodel) as well as identical firmware on both cameras.

If you are using only coupling method A you are welcome in the stoneage of digital stereoscopy, a step of about 20 years backwards in time...

Sony cameras HAVE the possibility to be powered up at the same time, so use it otherwise your synch is way worse as it coud be.

There is also another point which may change or make synch worse: synchdrift =chache of the start of the internal cycles to eachother). Since each camera uses its own oscillator, the frequece used to clock the cameras does not need to be 100% identical. These are often tolleraces of the used elecric components including the oscillator itself. So any twin rig will also show a synch drift - even worse: each camera combination has a different synch drift. A typical drift may be e.g 0.2ms per minute.

Does synchdrift really count? YES it does! Lets say you are on a city trip at different locations, your cameras are powered on and you shoot then an when some pictures... after 10min (even if you do NOT shoot any picture cameras still run) your synch changes by 10* 0.2ms so 2ms additonal missynch! To minimise sych drift you schould know your rigs specific drift value so you can decide after what running time it may be wise to power down/up your rig to bring cameras to a better synch.

Is the overall synch performace of a rig really important? Well, for scenes with no movement: NO. But for scenes where any movement is present: definitely YES since otherwise you cannot shoot e.g flags in the wind, treeleaves or grass in the wind, even moving cars or pedestrians may be a problem. So YES it is a good idea to know your rigs synchronisation! AND: Any (regardless of the camera brand) twin rig never ever has a perfect synch! You schould therefore try a coupling method which at least reduces missynch e.g by simmultanous power on!

Werner


John Hart
 

I would add a couple comments to Werner's excellent post:

1)  Sync drift CAN cause the mis-sync to go through zero.  For example, I set up my GH5s twin rig to power up with
a mis-sync of about 0.1 msec (using Damir Vrancic's programmable 3DSLR synchronizer).  At normal temperatures
sync drifts by around -.01 msec per minute.  Thus after 10 minutes sync will be very close to zero, and can be
perfect instantaneously as the drift crosses zero.  Unlikely you will know exactly when that is the case, but
I can certainly shoot at ~.01msec (excellent sync) for a few minutes if I need to.

2)  For cameras with rolling and focal plane shutters, vertical (and rotational) MIS-ALIGNMENT can lead to
sync errors even if the timing is perfect.  For example, if the shutter roll is 1/100 sec (not atypical), and
the two cameras are misaligned by 10% (which you would need to correct in SPM, say), then the sync error
introduced will be 1 msec.   Not insignificant.

HTH
John
hart3d.com


Werner Bloos
 

There are also other factors which may destroy synch, not mentioned im my last post (since written on a mobile phone with its tiny keyboard):
- changing record mode on the camera e.g from Auto to M or video mode or playback mode. The change of these modes may change the cycle duration as well as the cycle start.
- on last SDM beta test i found out that a focus cancel may also change the synch of the internal cycles (but does not change when focusing and shooting)

A rolling shutter is used as far as i know only with CMOS chips and usually only in video mode. In photo mode a global shutter is used.

Werner


George Themelis
 

For those interested in this topic, you can watch my NSA Presentation on Twin Cameras for stereo photography, in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkZxazhDSn8&t=276s
 
My presentation starts at around the 31 minute mark.
 
I cover the topic that Werner is referring to, by addressing the question “Why isn’t synchronization perfect?” from a layman’s point of view with simple schematics :) (which is my extend of knowledge)
 
Here is an outline of this presentation:

 

  1. General Concepts:
    1. Why use twin cameras?
    2. Camera arrangement
    3. Synchronization

 

  1. Specific camera rigs:
    1. Compact Canon with SDM
    2. Wired cameras
    3. Canon DSLR
    4. Panasonic Micro 4/3
    5. Samsung NX1000
    6. Samsung NX Mini
    7. Sony cameras
      1. RX0
      2. RX100
      3. RX10
 
George
 
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