Last weekend two cables (male and female) arrived from China to me, for the multi-terminal port of the latest models of Sony cameras.

With a little help from my friends (as the Beatles song :) of a well-known electronic store in Elche, now I can confirm that these two cables can get a perfect synchronization (no needing an external trigger) in, at least, three Sony Alpha cameras (A5100, A6000 and A7S). I think that can be also possibly in other two dozens of Sony cameras models (the Alpha and ... also the Cyber-Shot?).

I am very excited because, suddenly, I have the possibility of obtaining extraordinary 3D equipment, very powerful and cheap, and much better than any new 3D camera, because these Sony twined cameras allow shooting with a variable stereobase (not possible with any future two-lens camera).

As we all know the exposure depends on three inter-related variables (aperture, speed and ISO), and also the depth depends on other three inter-related variables (stereobase, focal distance, and distance to near object).

For this reason, if a variable is not adequate (here the excessive stereobase, excepte in the portrait mode) we can compensate that modifying the other two variables of the triangle:

a) increasing the distance to near object
or
b) decreasing the focal distance.

It think can be absurd to reject the stereobase of this Sony stereo rigs, (and can be a obvious non sense to mutilate the cameras !), because we not need a 6.5 cm stereobase: we only need to change the lenses (searching other focal distance) for compensate that.




I got a message from Randy Hester, in Phereo, few days ago:

http://phereo.com/image/5ab16f40e7e564e72100020d http://phereo.com/image/5ab16f40e7e564e72100020d

“the biggest difference id the Sony uses a proprietary multi-port connector for the focus and shutter pins. It's much harder to find than a standard USB connector but can be ordered online”.

I searched here information about the synchronization of the CSC Sony cameras and I found some hopeful phrases, since 2016:





crunchy_3d
Jul 8 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/110456 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/110456
Concerning Sonys, particularly A5000, Gert-Jan and me were measured synch and it was quite good (more than useful). Waiting Gert-Jan to present results. :-)
Damir

depthcam
Sep 15, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111830 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111830
Currently, good sync results have been reported by Damir and Gert-Jan with the Sony A5000
Francois

depthcam
Oct 31, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112733 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112733
However, for side by side use, they are excellent. Here is an article about it by Gert-Ian Wolkers:
http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-own-3d-camera/index.html http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-own-3d-camera/index.html
I have heard that Alexander Klein even has linked two Sony Alpha 6000's
Francois

depthcam
Dec 8, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114033 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114033
You would need to ask Alexander Klein who has a pair of Sony A6000's.
Francois

I also read the coments de Randy Hester at 3dphoto forum:
http://www.3dphoto.net/forum/index.php?topic=11976.0 http://www.3dphoto.net/forum/index.php?topic=11976.0 (Sony multi-port sync cable)

« on: March 25, 2018, 03:38:36 PM »The Sony multiport connector looks like a USB micro-B connector . I couldn't find the female version cable so I just bought two male cables





Then, trying to follow, maybe, the previous path of Gert-Jan Wolkers, Damir Vrancic, Alexander Klein and, perhaps, others: Synchronize with direct connection, without extern trigger, the Sony CSC Alpha cameras.

I looked for a female Sony multi-terminal cable (Female-S2, replacement for Sony RM-SPR1 Cable) and I only found it in China, but avaiable through Amazon Spain:
DSLRKIT E3 F-S2 (Female) https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00M6N0FQ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00M6N0FQ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

DSLRKIT 2.5-S2 (Male)
https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=DSLRKIT+2.5-S2 https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=DSLRKIT+2.5-S2+



The S8 cables, male and female, are compatible with several advanced Sony cams (today 39 models):

http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/cscs/accessories/?mdl=RM-SPR1&area=gwt&lang=es_ES http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/cscs/accessories/?mdl=RM-SPR1&area=gwt&lang=es_ES

Sony Alpha:
A7 / A7R /A7S/ A9 / (and mark II, III)
A3000/A3500/
NEX-3NL / A5000 / A5100 / A6000 / A6300 / A6500 /
A58 / A68 /A77II /A99II/

Sony Cyper-Shot:
RX1RII /
RX10II , III, IV /
RX100II , III, IV, V /
HX300 / HX350 / HX400 /
HX50 / HX60 / HX80 / HX50 / HX90 /
WX500 /
ILCE-QX1 /

I not know if the synchronization works well at all the Sony cameras with multi-terminal port. I only can confirm the sync with 3 models indicated above: A5100, A6000 and A7S (until ISO 400.000!).

In any case, each 3D photo lover can make the appropriate checks, only under their own risk.

Now (May 1) a new era in 3D photography begins, (at least for me, excited and happy): The Sony Multi-terminal Era.

Thank you Sony !!!

All the best

Jose Barbera
http://phereo.com/josebarbera http://phereo.com/josebarbera

________________________________________________________________

















































crunchy_3d
Jul 8 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/110456 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/110456

As I already commented below, Fujis are not OK for synching. No useful synch has been obtained in any mode. Concerning Sonys, particularly A5000, Gert-Jan and me were measured synch and it was quite good (more than useful). Waiting Gert-Jan to present results. :-)

Damir

depthcam
Sep 15, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111830 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111830

Currently, good sync results have been reported by Damir and Gert-Jan with the Sony A5000

Francois


BC Sep 15, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111836 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111836

Besides the very nice form factor, the Sony is also interesting
because of the tantalizing possibility of creating custom
software for it. Sony has two different approaches for doing
this...
"...to write/develop embedded applications for Sony cameras that
support after-the-fact install of "apps" from the Sony
"PlayMemories" application ( aka "store"). There is also a kinda
related ( but technically very different ) SDK by Sony that is
called the "remote api", which is used for apps outside the
camera ( android and ios phones typically) to assist them in
remotely performing actions to the camera over WiFi. One is an
in-camera app, the other is an out-of-camera app."
...BC


depthcam
Oct 31, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112733 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112733

I'd like to reiterate here that some people are now preferring pairing the lightweight Sony Alpha 5000 which has better IQ than the NX1000 and that has better stereo sync accuracy (less than 2ms error compared to 4ms error with the NX1000). The main shortcoming is that the remote ports are on the left of the body. Therefore unless someone designs a custom twin remote connector, it's not possible to bring the bodies as close together as with the NX1000. However, for side by side use, they are excellent. Here is an article about it by Gert-Ian Wolkers:
http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-own-3d-camera/index.html http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-own-3d-camera/index.html
I have heard that Alexander Klein even has linked two Sony Alpha 6000's

Francois


BC
Oct 31, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112735 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112735

> I'd like to reiterate here that some people are now preferring
> pairing the lightweight Sony Alpha 5000...
> http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-own-3d-camera/index.html http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-own-3d-camera/index.html

I had missed any discussion of this particular Sony camera.
Thanks for the link to that review. That Sony certainly sounds
promising.
...BC


George Themelis
Oct 31, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112736

Another consideration is the price. In terms of specs/price, I would say
that the Sony A500/600 is comparable to the Samsung NX500 (OK, maybe the
Samsung is more expensive, also not available new - is it a coincidence that
both have 500 in the model number?) Here is the comparison between these two
cameras:
http://cameradecision.com/compare/Sony-Alpha-a5000-vs-Samsung-NX500 http://cameradecision.com/compare/Sony-Alpha-a5000-vs-Samsung-NX500

Even without the issue of the remotes being on the "wrong side", it looks
like the spacing in the z-configuration is about 75-80mm for these cameras
(just a guess).

Does anyone know why some cameras show better synchronization than others.
What factors determine this? Why are the Panasonic cameras not as good as
the Sony or Samsung?

George


depthcam
Nov 1, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112754 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112754

>> The main shortcoming is that the remote ports are on
>> the left of the body.
> Ouch! I hate it when this happens :)

Yep. They always have to mess it up for us ! >:-(

> Another consideration is the price.

Yes. For sure the G1X and Sony Alphas are more expensive cameras. I guess you know how it goes: "You get what you pay for..."

> Does anyone know why some cameras show better synchronization than others.

Generally, it's the varying times the cameras take to set up exposure and focus. But the general reason seems to be the live-view display. I think someone mentioned a while back that the recent Sony's have a quicker responding live-view display. That may be why the recent Sony Alpha5000 has half the sync error as the older NEX-5.

> Even without the issue of the remotes being on the "wrong side", it looks
like the spacing in the z-configuration is about 75-80mm for these cameras

I was primarily comparing the Alpha5000 not to the NX1000 but to the Rebel pair that Bob mentioned. I was merely pointing out that the Alpha5000 is a more lightweight alternative to a pair of Rebels and with comparable IQ. In this regard, the Canon M3 is definitely another contender.

Francois


willkefamily
Nov 1, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112762

This Sony A5000 does sound interesting. Is there a ready-made Z-bar kit that would work for a pair of these, or would that be strictly a custom do-it-yourself project?

-Mark Willke


George Themelis
Nov 2, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112765 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112765

From what Francois said, a problem with these cameras is that the remote
port is on the short side. So the advantage of having the lenses off the
center is somewhat negated by the fact that you need space for the remote
plugs between the cameras.

George


depthcam
Nov 2 2016, 3:44 PM https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112785
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112785 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112785

The beauty of the latest Sony Alpha 5000 is that it only requires connection via external cables to achieve an average sync error of only 2ms. So one avoids the cost of having the cameras internally modified. But then, that's when the location of the ports becomes significant if you require a small interaxial.

What I said earlier is that it may be possible to design a very thin connector that could fit between the two cameras so that the interaxial would be minimally affected.

Francois


BC
Nov 2, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112789 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112789

My thought exactly. A PCB board with the micro USB plugs carefully aligned should be feasible.

...BC

Depthcam
Dec 7, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114005 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114005

While it is purely speculative on my part, I think it might be
feasible to create a printed circuit board, with carefully
positioned USB connectors soldered on the surface, that could be
used for connecting these camera

Francois

Depthcam
Dec 7, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114009 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114009

> While it is purely speculative on my part, I think it might be
> feasible to create a printed circuit board, with carefully
> positioned USB connectors soldered on the surface, that could be
> used for connecting these camera

Well, that's what I suggested for the Sony Alpha 5000, which I think is a better choice than the NX1000. But who would make one ?

Francois


laurent.doldi
Dec 8, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114011 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114011

The Alpha 5000 is a better body, but unfortunately the Sony zooms designed for it are bad. Even the expensive and huge Zeiss zoom is bad.
For example this 16-50mm zoom has only 1.5 stars in optical quality! : http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/842-sony1650f3556oss?start=2 http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/842-sony1650f3556oss?start=2
And this is confirmed by Chasseur d'Images and other not free reference paper magazines.
As opposed to most Samsung NX zooms which are very good, especially the cheap, small and light 20-50mm with 3.5 stars in optical quality, a true miracle!:
http://www.photozone.de/samsungnx/703_samsungnx2050f3556?start=1 http://www.photozone.de/samsungnx/703_samsungnx2050f3556?start=1
And as Samsung has stopped photography (except in phones naturally), the NX1000 and its lenses are very cheap (I missed a NX1000 + 20-50mm + 50-200mm like new for 160 Euros - 175US$!).

Laurent.



BC
Dec 8, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114014 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114014

Being an electronics hobbyist since I was 12, I think I have the
skill set to pull it off. But the Sony is not of interest to me
for the reasons that Laurent just enumerated, plus the expense of
the camera.

...BC

depthcam
Dec 8, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114026 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114026

I wish it were so clear cut as that...

First off, even Bob admitted that the Samsung sensors are not very impressive, while the Sony sensors are known for their great dynamic range. Secondly, as much as magazine reviews may be quoted in regards quality of lenses, just look at the image samples produced by the Sony. Gert-Jan Wolkers has been shooting extensively with them and is getting impressive results. Thirdly, if Sony lenses are your main argument, get an adapter and use Nikon lenses on those bodies like others have done.

And in the end, even though I know people here seem not to care about sync, tests show much better sync with Sony Alpha than with Samsung NX (for those who care...)

Francois


George Themelis
Dec 8, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114029

Question: Does the Sony Alpha synchronize with flash?

George

depthcam
Dec 8, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114033 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114033


You would need to ask Alexander Klein who has a pair of Sony A6000's.

Francois


laurent.doldi
Dec 9, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114057 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114057

Yes, the Sony A5000 sensors (extremely good) are better than the NX1000 sensors. But the NX1000 sensor is very good: the NX2000 (same sensor etc. as the NX1000) has got the maximum mark (5 stars) in Chasseur d'Images magazine severe tests.
77

laurent.doldi
Dec 9, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114058 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114058

> " Gert-Jan Wolkers has been shooting extensively with them (Sony A5000s) and is getting impressive results"

1. Did he used a prime lens or a zoom.
2. Why using useless Sony zooms, and not use the Samsung NX1000 zooms almost for free and providing an incredible image quality?
3. I am also getting impressive results with my NX1000 (for example at 2000 ISO in a circus with horrible lighting).

Laurent.


laurent.doldi
Dec 9, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114059 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114059

> " Thirdly, if Sony lenses are your main argument, get an adapter and use Nikon lenses"


Come on François: using the inexpensive, excellent and tiny Samsung zooms in much more handy than using an adapter an Nikon lenses, especially on a twin rig!

> " tests show much better sync with Sony Alpha than with Samsung NX"


I do not plan to shoot bullets etc.
I have taken pictures of my daughters playing table tennis, the synch is perfect, even on the ball flying.

Laurent.

George Themelis
Dec 9, 2016
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114067 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114067

Well, in the end, pictures will speak louder than words.



August 12, 2017
https://www.facebook.com/ISU3D/photos/pcb.1626458764062312/1626457517395770/?type=3 https://www.facebook.com/ISU3D/photos/pcb.1626458764062312/1626457517395770/?type=3
The latest 3D gadget from Cyclopital. Still a prototype.
Gert-Jan Wolkers : Looks like a twinned A6000/6300/6500.



https://www.3dphoto.net/forum/ https://www.3dphoto.net/forum/

New Cameras: Sony a5100
« on: February 09, 2018, 12:14:01 PM »
After lots of shopping I finally decided on the Sony a5100 cameras. A helpful post on the National Stereoscopic Association Facebook page informed me that these cameras can be cabled in a master/slave configuration so the shutter on one camera triggers the pair.
14thFloor_Randy Hester

Re: New Cameras: Sony a5100
« on: February 10, 2018, 12:33:08 a.m.»
Gert-Jon Wolkers was satisfied simply to mount his cameras side by side.
Francois

Re: New Cameras: Sony a5100
« on: February 13, 2018, 10:29:00 AM »
After testing the switch I opened it up to see how it's wired. A very simple leaf spring arraignment. The top leaf is the ground pin, push it down to short it with the focus pin to focus the camera. Push it farther to short both the focus and shutter to ground. Note: Shorting the shutter to ground alone does not fire the camera, focus also has to be grounded.
It should be very simple to wire another cable in parallel to drive two cameras
14thFloor_Randy Hester

Sony a5100_
« on: February 20, 2018, 04:22:26 PM »
I confirmed that the cameras do chain up so with the cables connected between them either camera shutter will trigger both cameras. I still need to buy a commercial 3.5 mm barrel connector to connect the cables. Next I will try some sync tests with moving subjects.
14thFloor_Randy Hester

Sony a5100 action shots
« on: March 15, 2018, 05:25:28 PM »
Out at the zoo today and tried a couple of fast moving subjects
14thFloor_Randy Hester

Re: Sony a5100 action shots
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2018, 08:19:17 AM »
Out of 115 pairs I did have two that were obviously out of sync. In both cases it was because I was not ready for the shot and did not allow a pause between the half press focus and the full press shutter release. The time between focus for the cameras seems to be a bit variable depending on which focus mode each camera decided on.
14thFloor_Randy Hester

Phereo:

March 24, 2018 Randy Hester commented photo Falles 2018
http://phereo.com/image/5ab16f40e7e564e72100020d http://phereo.com/image/5ab16f40e7e564e72100020d

I've seen several people posting shots from the Samsung NX series cameras with very good results. These cameras were high on my list of candidates after my Canon a810s died. Unfortunately Samsung cameras don't seem to be readily available in Thailand. I bought a pair of Sony a5100's instead. They have very similar spec's to the Samsung, the biggest difference id the Sony uses a proprietary multi-port connector for the focus and shutter pins. It's much harder to find than a standard USB connector but can be ordered online.

April 23, 2018 Randy Hester commented photo Sony a5100 Portrait rig http://phereo.com/image/5add680ce7e564941d00012e
Automatic focus and shutter detection via a Sony multi-port cable (not USB). More details at: http://www.3dphoto.net/forum/index.php/topic,11976.msg71729.html http://www.3dphoto.net/forum/index.php/topic,11976.msg71729.html

I've gotten very good sync results using a multi-port to multi-port cable and just using the shutter button on one camera to operate them both. You HAVE to wait for both cameras to focus (half press) before tripping the shutter (full press)



https://www.3dphoto.net/forum/ https://www.3dphoto.net/forum/

multi-port sync cable
« on: March 25, 2018, 03:38:36 PM »
The Sony multiport connector looks like a USB micro-B connector (it's compatible for charging and data transfer) but contains ten extra special purpose pins.
Of these pins only three are needed to sync two cameras: 2 - Ground, 5 - Focus, and 4 - Shutter
Grounding the focus then the shutter pins will focus and trigger the camera. The actions of the cameras main shutter button are also reflected on these pins, half press grounds the focus pin and full press triggers the shutter. So if the multiport pins 2, 4 and 5 are connected between two cameras with a cable then one shutter button can trigger both cameras.

A cable is also made with the female 2.5 mm connector, so the simplest solution is to buy one of each and just plug them together. I couldn't find the female version cable so I just bought two male cables. I further modified mine by replacing the 2.5mm connectors with the more common 3.5mm stereo headset connectors. I then connected them with a headset splitter.

You can also Y these two cables together and connect them to a simple remote switch if you want an off camera trigger.

Twin Camera Rigs - Current Best Practices & Casual Survey Sony A5100 Twin Camera Rigs Casual Survey https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/topics/119852 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/topics/119852

Apr 25
The Samsung sounds like a winner, with its physical size and ease of synchronizing, but I am a little put off at the thought of buying into an orphan system, and thereby limiting the range of future expansion (lenses, etc).
So, who's shooting what (camera, lenses, bracket/bars)? How easy/difficult was it to put together? How reliable is the sync, for both natural light and perhaps studio flash? Would you do it all over again the same way, or are there things you would change (and, if so, what)?
And, what am I forgetting to ask?
Mike Canter

depthcam
Apr 25 2:13 PM https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/119869
For those looking for high sync (via SDM) and a larger sensor than those on most compacts:
Canon G1X (1.5")
Canon G7X (1")
Canon M3 (APS-C)

The disadvantages:
Only the M3 has interchangeable lenses
minimum interaxial is 85mm
prices are much higher than NX1000

For very good sync and excellent IQ: Sony A5100 (APS-C) can be connected via remote port but connection is on wrong end of body making it diffcult to bring the lenses close together.

Francois

Apr 25 5:33 PM
I am using the Samsung NX on land and underwater I am using paired Canon SL1 (APS-C) and Sony A7 bodies (this one is presently under construction actually). The stereo base on the last two rigs is nearly 4 inches , but at the wide lens focal lengths/angles of view I am using, they are appropriate, allowing a near point distance of 6 feet . That’s perfect for the subjects I want to shoot.
I sync the Canon SL1’s with an SLR Shepherd and the Sony A7s with a dual multi-controller cable. The Sonys (which have sequential serial numbers) sync great with a wired connection, but not with IR.

The Sony A5100 (APS-C) looks terrific Francois. I could easily have used these instead of the Canon SL1 (APS-C), had I known about them. I see they are selling new at $348 now.

With regard to the Sony remote plug locations, I have found I can make custom Sony style (15 pin) multi-controller plugs that have a relatively low profile, projecting from the body about the same distance as the camera strap lug nuts on the Sony bodies. The multi-controller plugs with PCB boards are available on eBay.

Mark
www.undersea3d http://www.undersea3d/


Apr 26 10:09 AM
I was recently looking at some of Randy Hester’s images on Phere (I love Phereo). He had some images showing water spray at a Thai Wake Park. These seem to be very well synchronized. He also shows his Sony twin A5100 rig which he synchronizes using the Sony multi port.
From what I have read the multi port connector may not be well located for close camera spacing

Bob


> These seem to be very well synchronized.

Apr 26 10:47 AM
Damir tested these (actually, the A5000) and, as I recall, the average sync error was 2ms so considered pretty good and on par with Canon DSLR sync.
I estimate the open doors alone would add about 20mm to the interaxial. This means the minimum interaxial would be around 90mm. Some people are fine with that, others are not.

Francois

Apr 26 4:03 PM
Mark, did you ever quantify the Sony A7 synch with concrete numbers? I know you thought they were "good enough" for your applications.
DaveJes1979

Apr 27 4:03 PM
Attached are two of my stereo rigs. The second photo is of a pair of Sony RX1’s. This is a full frame , 35mm f2. This both is smaller and lighter and the images are very impressive. The Sony’s are the first version of the RX1’s and don’t have an electronic release. I generally fire them by hand (tricky to get used to) or on a tripod using a twin cable release. All my shooting is scenic so serious syncing isn’t a concern. The EVF on the right camera makes this a mirrorless reflex. Right now the Sony rig is my go to outfit when traveling.

Paul

Apr 27 12:02 PM https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/119907
Yeah, I know about the multiport plugs and I had suggested to users or people wanting to try an A5100 rig that maybe some type of "Zplug" could be designed (using two of those plugs) that would take up minimal space between the cameras when in Z-configuration. Maybe something that Werner could do ?

Francois

Apr 30
I enjoy my A5100 very much and its low light capability, high frame rate, manual settings, large noiseless detector. fast auto-focus, ability to accept other lenses, telescopes, microscopes just using adaptors, and the small size and low weight. I have not even used the wireless remote that seem great for pole mounting
Sync on the Sony is likely to be affected by the slight variance of focus and exposure that can come from slightly different viewpoints. Unless these cameras talk to each other, or to a shared controller , they are going to be off a bit most of the time. If half pressing the shutter button were an option then one could set a delay or even wait for a report from the camera. Sony might be more receptive to this idea than Canon who has not be receptive to ganging camera that DIY folks can afford. Perhaps we need to share our thoughts with Sony.

John TOEPPEN

Jose,

I don't consider myself to be an old-timer, but I must reply to this:

What the old-timers around here won't believe is that you can throw out
your flash, and all the associated synch hassles, with Sony cameras. Even
indoors, with my a6000 I NEVER use the onboard flash, nor have I been
tempted to buy an external flash. I might...maybe...get a small LED
constant light at some point for extremely low light situations. It is a
new world, folks!

Flash today is not used to give needed light, but to CONTROL the light. When
you take a picture inside a room, for example, you are stuck with whatever
lighting is in the room, which could be very unflattering to your subject.
Using flash allows you to control the light.

Look at the work of Bob Karambelas. Just about all his model pictures,
inside, outside, use flash. He creatively controls the light and he blends
available and flash light, creates special effects, etc.

A year ago I was setting two flash units to photograph the birds at my
feeder. My wife asked: "Why do you need flash? Isn't natural light always
better than flash?" The answer is "not necessarily". At a certain time of
the day, the light falls in a way that I like. The rest of the times, it
does not. Using flash, I can reproduce the light as a like it, any time of
the day.

The bottom line is this: If you want to shoot snapshots with any light that
happens to be around, or vast landscapes etc. when flash is ineffective,
then, yes, maybe you do not need a flash. But if you want to get creative
and control the light in the way that you like it, then flash is your friend
:)

George

Unfortunately, using longer focal length lenses with a wider stereo base
does not completely compensate. The use of long focal lengths, even with a
wide stereo base, still "flattens" the image.

This is why close-ups in the cinema often look squashed or flattened out,
sometimes even resembling cardboard cutouts in stereo. They use too long a
focal length. This is a problem whether shot in native 3D or converted.
It is especially a problem with conversions since the cinematographer is
not thinking of 3D during the original 2D shooting. The most natural
appearance will still be with close to a 65mm stereo base.

Also, use of longer focal lengths requires smaller f/stops to prevent fuzzy
areas in the picture, which are real eye-pullers in stereo. Smaller stops
have a limit too, called diffraction limiting.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

John A. Rupkalvis
stereoscope3d@...

[image: Picture]

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 2:02 AM, elendito@... [photo-3d] <
photo-3d@...> wrote:

Last weekend two cables (male and female) arrived from China to me, for
the multi-terminal port of the latest models of Sony cameras.



With a little help from my friends (as the Beatles song :) of a well-known
electronic store in Elche, now I can confirm that these two cables can get
a perfect synchronization (no needing an external trigger) in, at least,
three Sony Alpha cameras (A5100, A6000 and A7S). I think that can be also
possibly in other two dozens of Sony cameras models (the Alpha and ... also
the Cyber-Shot?).



I am very excited because, suddenly, I have the possibility of obtaining
extraordinary 3D equipment, very powerful and cheap, and much better than
any new 3D camera, because these Sony twined cameras allow shooting with a
variable stereobase (not possible with any future two-lens camera).



As we all know the exposure depends on three inter-related variables
(aperture, speed and ISO), and also the depth depends on other three
inter-related variables (stereobase, focal distance, and distance to near
object).



For this reason, if a variable is not adequate (here the excessive
stereobase, excepte in the portrait mode) we can compensate that modifying
the other two variables of the triangle:



a) increasing the distance to near object

or

b) decreasing the focal distance.



It think can be absurd to reject the stereobase of this Sony stereo rigs,
(and can be a obvious non sense to mutilate the cameras !), because we not
need a 6.5 cm stereobase: we only need to change the lenses (searching
other focal distance) for compensate that.









I got a message from Randy Hester, in Phereo, few days ago:



http://phereo.com/image/5ab16f40e7e564e72100020d



“the biggest difference id the Sony uses a proprietary multi-port
connector for the focus and shutter pins. It's much harder to find than a
standard USB connector but can be ordered online”.



I searched here information about the synchronization of the CSC Sony
cameras and I found some hopeful phrases, since 2016:





crunchy_3d

Jul 8 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/110456

Concerning Sonys, particularly A5000, Gert-Jan and me were measured synch
and it was quite good (more than useful). Waiting Gert-Jan to present
results. :-)
Damir



depthcam

Sep 15, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111830

Currently, good sync results have been reported by Damir and Gert-Jan with
the Sony A5000
Francois



depthcam

Oct 31, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112733

However, for side by side use, they are excellent. Here is an article
about it by Gert-Ian Wolkers:
http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-
own-3d-camera/index.html
I have heard that Alexander Klein even has linked two Sony Alpha 6000's
Francois



depthcam

Dec 8, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114033
You would need to ask Alexander Klein who has a pair of Sony A6000's.
Francois



I also read the coments de Randy Hester at 3dphoto forum:

http://www.3dphoto.net/forum/index.php?topic=11976.0 (Sony multi-port
sync cable)



« on: March 25, 2018, 03:38:36 PM »The Sony multiport connector looks like
a USB micro-B connector . I couldn't find the female version cable so I
just bought two male cables











Then, trying to follow, maybe, the previous path of Gert-Jan Wolkers,
Damir Vrancic, Alexander Klein and, perhaps, others: Synchronize with
direct connection, without extern trigger, the Sony CSC Alpha cameras.


I looked for a female Sony multi-terminal cable (Female-S2, replacement
for Sony RM-SPR1 Cable) and I only found it in China, but avaiable
through Amazon Spain:


DSLRKIT E3 F-S2 (Female)

https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00M6N0FQ8/ref=oh_aui_
detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



DSLRKIT 2.5-S2 (Male)

https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%
C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-
keywords=DSLRKIT+2.5-S2+







The S8 cables, male and female, are compatible with several advanced Sony
cams (today 39 models):



http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/cscs/accessories/?
mdl=RM-SPR1&area=gwt&lang=es_ES



Sony Alpha:

A7 / A7R /A7S/ A9 / (and mark II, III)

A3000/A3500/

NEX-3NL / A5000 / A5100 / A6000 / A6300 / A6500 /

A58 / A68 /A77II /A99II/



Sony Cyper-Shot:

RX1RII /

RX10II , III, IV /

RX100II , III, IV, V /

HX300 / HX350 / HX400 /

HX50 / HX60 / HX80 / HX50 / HX90 /

WX500 /

ILCE-QX1 /



I not know if the synchronization works well at all the Sony cameras with
multi-terminal port. I only can confirm the sync with 3 models indicated
above: A5100, A6000 and A7S (until ISO 400.000!).



In any case, each 3D photo lover can make the appropriate checks, only
under their own risk.



Now (May 1) a new era in 3D photography begins, (at least for me, excited
and happy): The Sony Multi-terminal Era.



Thank you Sony !!!



All the best



Jose Barbera

http://phereo.com/josebarbera



________________________________________________________________





































































crunchy_3d

Jul 8 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/110456



As I already commented below, Fujis are not OK for synching. No useful
synch has been obtained in any mode. Concerning Sonys, particularly A5000,
Gert-Jan and me were measured synch and it was quite good (more than
useful). Waiting Gert-Jan to present results. :-)

Damir



depthcam

Sep 15, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111830



Currently, good sync results have been reported by Damir and Gert-Jan with
the Sony A5000

Francois




BC

Sep 15, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/111836



Besides the very nice form factor, the Sony is also interesting
because of the tantalizing possibility of creating custom
software for it. Sony has two different approaches for doing
this...
"...to write/develop embedded applications for Sony cameras that
support after-the-fact install of "apps" from the Sony
"PlayMemories" application ( aka "store"). There is also a kinda
related ( but technically very different ) SDK by Sony that is
called the "remote api", which is used for apps outside the
camera ( android and ios phones typically) to assist them in
remotely performing actions to the camera over WiFi. One is an
in-camera app, the other is an out-of-camera app."

...BC





depthcam

Oct 31, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112733



I'd like to reiterate here that some people are now preferring pairing the
lightweight Sony Alpha 5000 which has better IQ than the NX1000 and that
has better stereo sync accuracy (less than 2ms error compared to 4ms error
with the NX1000). The main shortcoming is that the remote ports are on the
left of the body. Therefore unless someone designs a custom twin remote
connector, it's not possible to bring the bodies as close together as with
the NX1000. However, for side by side use, they are excellent. Here is an
article about it by Gert-Ian Wolkers:
http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-
own-3d-camera/index.html
I have heard that Alexander Klein even has linked two Sony Alpha 6000's

Francois





BC

Oct 31, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112735

I'd like to reiterate here that some people are now preferring

pairing the lightweight Sony Alpha 5000...

http://world-of-3d.com/3d-igital-equipment/make-your-

own-3d-camera/index.html



I had missed any discussion of this particular Sony camera.

Thanks for the link to that review. That Sony certainly sounds

promising.

...BC





George Themelis

Oct 31, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112736



Another consideration is the price. In terms of specs/price, I would say
that the Sony A500/600 is comparable to the Samsung NX500 (OK, maybe the
Samsung is more expensive, also not available new - is it a coincidence
that
both have 500 in the model number?) Here is the comparison between these
two
cameras:
http://cameradecision.com/compare/Sony-Alpha-a5000-vs-Samsung-NX500


Even without the issue of the remotes being on the "wrong side", it looks
like the spacing in the z-configuration is about 75-80mm for these cameras
(just a guess).

Does anyone know why some cameras show better synchronization than others.
What factors determine this? Why are the Panasonic cameras not as good as
the Sony or Samsung?

George





depthcam

Nov 1, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112754

The main shortcoming is that the remote ports are on

the left of the body.

Ouch! I hate it when this happens :)

Yep. They always have to mess it up for us ! >:-(

Another consideration is the price.

Yes. For sure the G1X and Sony Alphas are more expensive cameras. I
guess you know how it goes: "You get what you pay for..."

Does anyone know why some cameras show better synchronization than

others.



Generally, it's the varying times the cameras take to set up exposure and
focus. But the general reason seems to be the live-view display. I think
someone mentioned a while back that the recent Sony's have a quicker
responding live-view display. That may be why the recent Sony Alpha5000
has half the sync error as the older NEX-5.

Even without the issue of the remotes being on the "wrong side", it looks

like the spacing in the z-configuration is about 75-80mm for these cameras



I was primarily comparing the Alpha5000 not to the NX1000 but to the Rebel
pair that Bob mentioned. I was merely pointing out that the Alpha5000 is a
more lightweight alternative to a pair of Rebels and with comparable IQ.
In this regard, the Canon M3 is definitely another contender.



Francois





willkefamily

Nov 1, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112762



This Sony A5000 does sound interesting. Is there a ready-made Z-bar kit
that would work for a pair of these, or would that be strictly a custom
do-it-yourself project?

-Mark Willke





George Themelis

Nov 2, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112765



From what Francois said, a problem with these cameras is that the remote
port is on the short side. So the advantage of having the lenses off the
center is somewhat negated by the fact that you need space for the remote
plugs between the cameras.

George





depthcam

Nov 2 2016, 3:44 PM
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112785>

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112785



The beauty of the latest Sony Alpha 5000 is that it only requires
connection via external cables to achieve an average sync error of only
2ms. So one avoids the cost of having the cameras internally modified.
But then, that's when the location of the ports becomes significant if you
require a small interaxial.



What I said earlier is that it may be possible to design a very thin
connector that could fit between the two cameras so that the interaxial
would be minimally affected.



Francois





BC

Nov 2, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/112789



My thought exactly. A PCB board with the micro USB plugs carefully
aligned should be feasible.

...BC



Depthcam

Dec 7, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114005



While it is purely speculative on my part, I think it might be
feasible to create a printed circuit board, with carefully
positioned USB connectors soldered on the surface, that could be
used for connecting these camera



Francois



Depthcam

Dec 7, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114009

While it is purely speculative on my part, I think it might be

feasible to create a printed circuit board, with carefully
positioned USB connectors soldered on the surface, that could be
used for connecting these camera

Well, that's what I suggested for the Sony Alpha 5000, which I think is a
better choice than the NX1000. But who would make one ?

Francois





laurent.doldi

Dec 8, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114011



The Alpha 5000 is a better body, but unfortunately the Sony zooms designed
for it are bad. Even the expensive and huge Zeiss zoom is bad.
For example this 16-50mm zoom has only 1.5 stars in optical quality! :
http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/842-sony1650f3556oss?start=2

And this is confirmed by Chasseur d'Images and other not free reference
paper magazines.
As opposed to most Samsung NX zooms which are very good, especially the
cheap, small and light 20-50mm with 3.5 stars in optical quality, a true
miracle!:

http://www.photozone.de/samsungnx/703_samsungnx2050f3556?start=1

And as Samsung has stopped photography (except in phones naturally), the
NX1000 and its lenses are very cheap (I missed a NX1000 + 20-50mm +
50-200mm like new for 160 Euros - 175US$!).

Laurent.



BC

Dec 8, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114014



Being an electronics hobbyist since I was 12, I think I have the
skill set to pull it off. But the Sony is not of interest to me
for the reasons that Laurent just enumerated, plus the expense of
the camera.

...BC



depthcam

Dec 8, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114026


I wish it were so clear cut as that...

First off, even Bob admitted that the Samsung sensors are not very
impressive, while the Sony sensors are known for their great dynamic
range. Secondly, as much as magazine reviews may be quoted in regards
quality of lenses, just look at the image samples produced by the Sony.
Gert-Jan Wolkers has been shooting extensively with them and is getting
impressive results. Thirdly, if Sony lenses are your main argument, get an
adapter and use Nikon lenses on those bodies like others have done.

And in the end, even though I know people here seem not to care about
sync, tests show much better sync with Sony Alpha than with Samsung NX (for
those who care...)

Francois





George Themelis

Dec 8, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114029



Question: Does the Sony Alpha synchronize with flash?

George



depthcam

Dec 8, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114033

You would need to ask Alexander Klein who has a pair of Sony A6000's.

Francois





laurent.doldi

Dec 9, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114057



Yes, the Sony A5000 sensors (extremely good) are better than the NX1000
sensors. But the NX1000 sensor is very good: the NX2000 (same sensor etc.
as the NX1000) has got the maximum mark (5 stars) in Chasseur d'Images
magazine severe tests.

77



laurent.doldi

Dec 9, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114058

" Gert-Jan Wolkers has been shooting extensively with them (Sony A5000s)

and is getting impressive results"



1. Did he used a prime lens or a zoom.
2. Why using useless Sony zooms, and not use the Samsung NX1000 zooms
almost for free and providing an incredible image quality?
3. I am also getting impressive results with my NX1000 (for example at
2000 ISO in a circus with horrible lighting).

Laurent.





laurent.doldi

Dec 9, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114059

" Thirdly, if Sony lenses are your main argument, get an adapter and

use Nikon lenses"

Come on François: using the inexpensive, excellent and tiny Samsung zooms
in much more handy than using an adapter an Nikon lenses, especially on a
twin rig!

" tests show much better sync with Sony Alpha than with Samsung NX"

I do not plan to shoot bullets etc.
I have taken pictures of my daughters playing table tennis, the synch is
perfect, even on the ball flying.

Laurent.



George Themelis

Dec 9, 2016

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/114067



Well, in the end, pictures will speak louder than words.







August 12, 2017

https://www.facebook.com/ISU3D/photos/pcb.1626458764062312/
1626457517395770/?type=3

The latest 3D gadget from Cyclopital. Still a prototype.

Gert-Jan Wolkers <https://www.facebook.com/gertjan.wolkers?fref=ufi&rc=p> :
Looks like a twinned A6000/6300/6500.







https://www.3dphoto.net/forum/



New Cameras: Sony a5100

« on: February 09, 2018, 12:14:01 PM »

After lots of shopping I finally decided on the Sony a5100 cameras. A
helpful post on the National Stereoscopic Association Facebook page
informed me that these cameras can be cabled in a master/slave
configuration so the shutter on one camera triggers the pair.

14thFloor_Randy Hester



Re: New Cameras: Sony a5100

« on: February 10, 2018, 12:33:08 a.m.»

Gert-Jon Wolkers was satisfied simply to mount his cameras side by side.

Francois



Re: New Cameras: Sony a5100

« on: February 13, 2018, 10:29:00 AM »

After testing the switch I opened it up to see how it's wired. A very
simple leaf spring arraignment. The top leaf is the ground pin, push it
down to short it with the focus pin to focus the camera. Push it farther to
short both the focus and shutter to ground. Note: Shorting the shutter to
ground alone does not fire the camera, focus also has to be grounded.

It should be very simple to wire another cable in parallel to drive two
cameras

14thFloor_Randy Hester



Sony a5100_

« on: February 20, 2018, 04:22:26 PM »

I confirmed that the cameras do chain up so with the cables connected
between them either camera shutter will trigger both cameras. I still need
to buy a commercial 3.5 mm barrel connector to connect the cables. Next I
will try some sync tests with moving subjects.

14thFloor_Randy Hester



Sony a5100 action shots

« on: March 15, 2018, 05:25:28 PM »

Out at the zoo today and tried a couple of fast moving subjects

14thFloor_Randy Hester



Re: Sony a5100 action shots

« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2018, 08:19:17 AM »

Out of 115 pairs I did have two that were obviously out of sync. In both
cases it was because I was not ready for the shot and did not allow a pause
between the half press focus and the full press shutter release. The time
between focus for the cameras seems to be a bit variable depending on which
focus mode each camera decided on.

14thFloor_Randy Hester



Phereo:



March 24, 2018 Randy Hester commented photo Falles 2018

http://phereo.com/image/5ab16f40e7e564e72100020d



I've seen several people posting shots from the Samsung NX series cameras
with very good results. These cameras were high on my list of candidates
after my Canon a810s died. Unfortunately Samsung cameras don't seem to be
readily available in Thailand. I bought a pair of Sony a5100's instead.
They have very similar spec's to the Samsung, the biggest difference id the
Sony uses a proprietary multi-port connector for the focus and shutter
pins. It's much harder to find than a standard USB connector but can be
ordered online.



April 23, 2018 Randy Hester commented photo Sony a5100 Portrait rig
http://phereo.com/image/5add680ce7e564941d00012e

Automatic focus and shutter detection via a Sony multi-port cable (not
USB). More details at: http://www.3dphoto.net/forum/index.php/topic,11976.
msg71729.html



I've gotten very good sync results using a multi-port to multi-port cable
and just using the shutter button on one camera to operate them both. You
HAVE to wait for both cameras to focus (half press) before tripping the
shutter (full press)







https://www.3dphoto.net/forum/



multi-port sync cable

« on: March 25, 2018, 03:38:36 PM »

The Sony multiport connector looks like a USB micro-B connector (it's
compatible for charging and data transfer) but contains ten extra special
purpose pins.

Of these pins only three are needed to sync two cameras: 2 - Ground, 5 -
Focus, and 4 - Shutter

Grounding the focus then the shutter pins will focus and trigger the
camera. The actions of the cameras main shutter button are also reflected
on these pins, half press grounds the focus pin and full press triggers the
shutter. So if the multiport pins 2, 4 and 5 are connected between two
cameras with a cable then one shutter button can trigger both cameras.



A cable is also made with the female 2.5 mm connector, so the simplest
solution is to buy one of each and just plug them together. I couldn't find
the female version cable so I just bought two male cables. I further
modified mine by replacing the 2.5mm connectors with the more common 3.5mm
stereo headset connectors. I then connected them with a headset splitter.



You can also Y these two cables together and connect them to a simple
remote switch if you want an off camera trigger.


Twin Camera Rigs - Current Best Practices & Casual SurveySony A5100 Twin
Camera Rigs Casual Survey

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/topics/119852



Apr 25

The Samsung sounds like a winner, with its physical size and ease of
synchronizing, but I am a little put off at the thought of buying into an
orphan system, and thereby limiting the range of future expansion (lenses,
etc).

So, who's shooting what (camera, lenses, bracket/bars)? How
easy/difficult was it to put together? How reliable is the sync, for both
natural light and perhaps studio flash? Would you do it all over again
the same way, or are there things you would change (and, if so, what)?

And, what am I forgetting to ask?

Mike Canter



depthcam

Apr 25 2:13 PM
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/119869>

For those looking for high sync (via SDM) and a larger sensor than those
on most compacts:
Canon G1X (1.5")
Canon G7X (1")
Canon M3 (APS-C)

The disadvantages:
Only the M3 has interchangeable lenses
minimum interaxial is 85mm
prices are much higher than NX1000

For very good sync and excellent IQ: Sony A5100 (APS-C) can be connected
via remote port but connection is on wrong end of body making it diffcult
to bring the lenses close together.

Francois



Apr 25 5:33 PM

<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/119875>I
am using the Samsung NX on land and underwater I am using paired Canon SL1
(APS-C) and Sony A7 bodies (this one is presently under construction
actually). The stereo base on the last two rigs is nearly 4 inches , but at
the wide lens focal lengths/angles of view I am using, they are
appropriate, allowing a near point distance of 6 feet . That’s perfect for
the subjects I want to shoot.

I sync the Canon SL1’s with an SLR Shepherd and the Sony A7s with a dual
multi-controller cable. The Sonys (which have sequential serial numbers)
sync great with a wired connection, but not with IR.



The Sony A5100 (APS-C) looks terrific Francois. I could easily have used
these instead of the Canon SL1 (APS-C), had I known about them. I see they
are selling new at $348 now.



With regard to the Sony remote plug locations, I have found I can make
custom Sony style (15 pin) multi-controller plugs that have a relatively
low profile, projecting from the body about the same distance as the camera
strap lug nuts on the Sony bodies. The multi-controller plugs with PCB
boards are available on eBay.



Mark

www.undersea3d





Apr 26 10:09 AM

I was recently looking at some of Randy Hester’s images on Phere (I love
Phereo). He had some images showing water spray at a Thai Wake Park. These
seem to be very well synchronized. He also shows his Sony twin A5100 rig
which he synchronizes using the Sony multi port.

From what I have read the multi port connector may not be well located for
close camera spacing



Bob

These seem to be very well synchronized.

Apr 26 10:47 AM

Damir tested these (actually, the A5000) and, as I recall, the average
sync error was 2ms so considered pretty good and on par with Canon DSLR
sync.

I estimate the open doors alone would add about 20mm to the interaxial.
This means the minimum interaxial would be around 90mm. Some people are
fine with that, others are not.



Francois



Apr 26 4:03 PM

Mark, did you ever quantify the Sony A7 synch with concrete numbers? I
know you thought they were "good enough" for your applications.

DaveJes1979



Apr 27 4:03 PM

Attached are two of my stereo rigs. The second photo is of a pair of Sony
RX1’s. This is a full frame , 35mm f2. This both is smaller and lighter
and the images are very impressive. The Sony’s are the first version of
the RX1’s and don’t have an electronic release. I generally fire them by
hand (tricky to get used to) or on a tripod using a twin cable release. All
my shooting is scenic so serious syncing isn’t a concern. The EVF on the
right camera makes this a mirrorless reflex. Right now the Sony rig is my
go to outfit when traveling.



Paul



Apr 27 12:02 PM
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/photo-3d/conversations/messages/119907>
Yeah, I know about the multiport plugs and I had suggested to users or
people wanting to try an A5100 rig that maybe some type of "Zplug" could be
designed (using two of those plugs) that would take up minimal space
between the cameras when in Z-configuration. Maybe something that Werner
could do ?

Francois



Apr 30

I enjoy my A5100 very much and its low light capability, high frame rate,
manual settings, large noiseless detector. fast auto-focus, ability to
accept other lenses, telescopes, microscopes just using adaptors, and the
small size and low weight. I have not even used the wireless remote that
seem great for pole mounting

Sync on the Sony is likely to be affected by the slight variance of focus
and exposure that can come from slightly different viewpoints. Unless
these cameras talk to each other, or to a shared controller , they are
going to be off a bit most of the time. If half pressing the shutter
button were an option then one could set a delay or even wait for a report
from the camera. Sony might be more receptive to this idea than Canon who
has not be receptive to ganging camera that DIY folks can afford. Perhaps
we need to share our thoughts with Sony.

John TOEPPEN

Certeanly a miraculous sync in ALL the Alpha Sony cams is possible with a small investment (EUR 15,40 = 7,90+7,50).

 

Amazon Spain warns, (but only since 2 days :): " Comprados juntos habitualmente " (Frequently bought together) and suggests " Anadir ambos a la cesta " (Add both to Cart) ... but does not explain that this suggestion is due that using both cables we can assemble the best 3D photography equipment that we could never dream of.

 

The F-S8 cable, female, seems a absurd item, since the external triggers of the Sony cameras require a S8 male (M-S8). Perhaps DSLRKIT built the female version (possibly soon, after the latest news about its usefulness, it wiil be "out of stock”, I hope never “discontinued”)  because in China it is possible to buy male triggers (here only female).

 

Today I can confirm that in addition to the Randy A5100, and in addition to the A6000 and the A7S (full frame, ISO until 400000!) also ALL the cams SONY CSC  (hybrides in French, EVIL in Spanish) have a perfect sync :

 

F-S8 + M-S8 sync fine all te Sony Alpha cams:

 

A7 / A7R / A7S / A9 / (and II, III)

A3000 / A3500 /

NEX-3N / A5000 / A5100 / A6000 / A6300 / A6500 /

A58 / A68 / A77II / A99II /

 

But after several tests we can affirm these two cables (F-S8 & M-S8) cannot sycronyce the more pocketable Sony Multi-terminal cams:

 

HX50 / HX60 / HX80 / HX50 / HX90 / WX500 /

 

We could not test other Sony Multi-Terminal cams  (RX-100II, RX-10II, RX-1RII and ILCE-QX-1) because we did not have two unboxed identical cams in the shop and she cannort risk her job unboxing more cams.

 

Certainly the sync of the Alpha Sony cams is not exactly a new idea. After the message de Randy in Phereo, (con una pequeña ayuda de Yahoo search engine) I found here some rumors (shown in my previous message) about a possible sync of two models (A5000 and A6000) ...but... only several rumors, lost among many lines of text, without a explicit confirmation.

 

Nobody confirmed that he was doing a good sync with any Sony camera or explained the methods he tried to use for it (external o internal cable, diodes, infrared, bluetooth, wireless, bluetoth..). For those reasons those rumors were not relevant: never confirmed and never made explicit.

 

These new information will be relevant now, when it is now known and believed by all. That will make possible a great change, to better, of 3D photography

 

On the other hand, Jean Pierre suggested yesterday another possible connection with 5 items:

male 2.5mm plug + 2.5 to 3.5mm adapter + 3.5 female to 3.5 female + 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter + male 2.5 plug 

 

But i think the conection male-female (F S8 + M S8), only two items, is more simple, aesthetic and professional. Also the Randy method with only 3 items.

 

All the best

 

Jose Barbera

 

PS

 

The sync tests have been done photographing cars at high speed, urban pigeons and water sources.Soon I will upload some samples to Phereo:

 

http://phereo.com/josebarbera

... professional cinematographers often use ... reflectors to
"bounce" the light where they want it.

Many years ago I got a nice small circular reflector with a
spring wire frame, silver on one side, gold on the other. It
folds up compactly using the same technique as some car
windshield shades and when folded can fit in the back pocket of
my shoulder camera bag.

I've never used it.

The problem is I simply don't do posed or staged pictures. When
taking a photo of my girlfriend outdoors, I suppose I could ask
her to hold the reflector down below her face and help her angle
it to get the right fill. Realistically, this just isn't going
to happen.

One of the things that is nice about modern electronic cameras is
that with a dedicated flash, they have automatic fill-flash down
to a science. Even my RBT S1 (Konica Hexar) with its dedicated
flash did beautiful fill flash with no muss, fuss, or bother.

Ironically a place where I would consider the extra fuss of using
a reflector would be macro. But there the name of the game is
well defused flash. Natural light usually is not going to cut
it.

I'm not a big fan of flash photography mostly because when it is
done poorly it looks awful. But I've certainly seen it done well
and would like to get more skilled at it myself.

...BC

 

I think for compensate an excessive stereo base (greater than human, 6.5cm) we must use a shorter focal length ( under the human eye, 50mm) and never a longer focal length.

 

A short focal length produces the "inverse cardboard effect": it increases the depth-----------  >it lengthens the Z axis.

 

That was discussed in this list (“inverse cardboard effect”) when commenting about the 3D fish-eye photos:

 

http://phereo.com/album/5819e0d8888428b30700000b

 

http://phereo.com/album/5952db95888428ab46000006

 

 

Jose Barbera

 

http://phereo.com/josebarbera

 

PS

To avoid diffraction or shallow depth of field it is good to use the "8" rule:(Weegee, USA) :

 

https://www.xatakafoto.com/trucos-y-consejos/la-regla-del-f8-en-fotografia-documental-de-calle-o-viajes-que-es-y-como-sacarle-provecho

The use of long focal lengths, even with a wide stereo base,
still "flattens" the image.

[ Over 1200 lines of previous postings removed! ]

I don't think I'll ever forget the experience as a child (12ish)
looking out the back window of my father's car, using a pair of
binoculars. All the cars behind us looked like cardboard
cutouts. The effect was very striking and uncanny.

On the other hand Dr. T made me a believer, with his bird photos,
that a mild hyper 3D with longer lenses can indeed work well. It
is something I've yet to try yet myself but plan to.

A while back I did try to do some bird photos with a remote
trigger RBT camera on a tripod, pointed at a flat wooden platform
where my neighbor would put oranges cut in half to attract
Orioles. The birds did not like this two-eyed thing so close to
their feeding station and would try and drag the orange away from
the camera!

...BC

Oh, yes!! I have seen this many times.

Photographing people on stage in theatrical etc. events, the people in the back look larger than the ones in the front, and you KNOW they are the same size.

I showed this to Jay Horowitz and he said he will include it in his 3d Illusions presentation.

George

> Certainly a miraculous sync in ALL the Alpha Sony cams is possible


2ms is good by not "miraculous".  SDM provides better sync.


> But does not explain that this suggestion is due that using both cables we can assemble the best 3D photography equipment that we could never dream of.


It's true that this cable is convenient, but using an adapter instead is just as simple and allows the use of angle plugs for a smaller base.


> Today I can confirm that in addition to the Randy A5100, and in addition to the A6000 and the A7S (full frame, ISO until 400000!) also ALL the cams SONY CSC  (hybrides in French, EVIL in Spanish) have a perfect sync...

What tests have you conducted to come to a conclusion of "perfect sync" ? 2ms is not "perfect". (Note, birds in flight are not "sync tests")

> Certainly the sync of the Alpha Sony cams is not exactly a new idea. After the message de Randy in Phereo, (con una pequeña ayuda de Yahoo search engine) I found here some rumors (shown in my previous message) about a possible sync of two models (A5000 and A6000) ...but... only several rumors, lost among many lines of text, without a explicit confirmation.

They were not "rumors" but confirmations of people having used Sony cameras for years.  This was brought up many times over the years.  It may simply be that you weren't paying attention !

> Nobody confirmed that he was doing a good sync with any Sony camera

Maye you should have done your own research and then you would have found this years ago.  Gert-Ian Wolkers had a website with all this information over many years.  Photo 3D is not the only source of information !

> For those reasons those rumors were not relevant: never confirmed and never made explicit.

This is more a statement on your own inability to search for information.  It was there all along and clear.  It's unfortunate that you missed it.

> These new information will be relevant now, when it is now known and believed by all. That will make possible a great change, to better, of 3D photography

Not everybody considers the Sony's revolutionary.  If that were the case, then all pros would be using them instead of Canon or Nikon cameras.  People also consider the costs.  That's exactly why the NX1000 is so popular... it's very cheap !  And that's the reason far fewer people choose the Sony's:  They cost a lot more.  And of course, they all want the magic "65mm base" that the Sony's cannot provide !

> On the other hand, Jean Pierre suggested...

My name is not "Jean-Pierre" !

 
> But i think the connection male-female (F S8 + M S8), only two items, is more simple, aesthetic and professional.

I am not looking for aesthetics but practicality.  The suggestion I made calls for cables that have ANGLED S2 plugs, which the ones you suggested do not.  The main reason for that suggestion is for people who want to bring a pair of A5100 as close together as possible.

Francois

Jose,

I am one of the biggest Sony fanboys on this forum, but I still must say that *if* the synch by using these terminals is only around 2ms, then it is indeed not "perfect".  And Francois is right, we need real synch testing, not simply eyeballing images of fast-moving objects. I want to be optimistic, but we need real, quantifiable numbers.

I would probably give up the quest for genlock-level "perfect" synch if indeed there is a camera pair that can perform *reliably* (>90% of the time) under 1ms.  Currently that means you either get a genlockable camera, or go with select SDM cameras (like my Canon S95's).

I also agree with Francois that it is best to use angled connectors to minimize the minimum stereo base.  However, I will say that if I can get in the vicinity of a 84mm stereo base with an APS-C sized sensor camera, I will be happy...that is quite sufficient for most of my applications (landscape and travel).  I have accepted the fact that for hypostereo applications I need a separate camera rig using 1" sensors or smaller.  And, yes, I do sometimes need hypostereo...if I am at a restaurant and want to photograph my plate in front of me, or my wife across from me, or anything closer than a few feet.  Anyone who has compared the W1/W3 with the 3D1 in these kinds of situations know exactly what I'm talking about.

Nikon have announced the will be developing a new mirrorless system with new lens mount. Perhaps we should engage Nikon to request some features that might make these useful for twin or multi camera synchronized set ups? Things like location of lens and remote connections. Ideally a way to sychronize camera clocks or make one camera the clock for all connected

Don’t forget there are othe multi camera applications besides our 3D hobby

John, you are talking to someone who had a Canon 450D pair with SLR Shepherd. I still encountered enough blown shots to get angry over it, although I don't know what that was statistically.

And this is 2018. Sorry, Canon sensors are embarrassingly behind the times.

>And this is 2018. Sorry, Canon sensors are embarrassingly behind the times.