Date   

Re: Restoring old Cirvil 3D War Photos

Jim Johnston
 

Thanks for the link, John.  Your show was so interesting I even put on my anagylph glasses to view it. 
Can you provide a link to Yabazam.com?

Jim


Re: New Picture Frames

 

This is actually a "live" stereoscopic game capture of the Unity UI via OBS (Open Broadcaster Software), but I can probably reduce the "shakiness" effect by not zooming in and cropping the scene in post (via Vegas Pro), which is probably exaggerating the shakiness.
This gives me the opportunity to composite other elements into the scene, which is lots of fun, so I'll try that next and see if it reduces the effects of the shakiness.
I also just remembered that rather than looking down at the carpet to see where I'm at in my VR play area, I should be able to use the Oculus guardian lines:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2487892001322685


Re: Restoring old Cirvil 3D War Photos

John Clement
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-_TY7gLBT4

 

If you click on my name you can get a list of all the other contributions to YouTube.  These have been uploaded as 3D, so YouTube recognizes them and does things to them.  You may have to download them to view them.  Chrome works on a Commander tablet, and I think some 3D TVs can view them properly.

 

John

 

From: main@Photo-3d.groups.io <main@Photo-3d.groups.io> On Behalf Of ratkins5 via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 7:42 AM
To: main@Photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Restoring old Cirvil 3D War Photos

 

Where can these be seen?

Thanks!

Randy


Re: Restoring old Cirvil 3D War Photos

ratkins5@...
 

Where can these be seen?

Thanks!

Randy


Restoring old Cirvil 3D War Photos

John Clement
 

Many of these are available in the Library of Congress and there are many scans of them available for free on the web.  Both the original negatives and cards can be downloaded.  They make good digital viewing.  When restoring the View-Master Civil War series I cheated by going to the original copies.  As a result I got superb images instead of the smudgy reproductions photographed by the VM people.  In  a few cases the cards were better than the deteriorated negatives.

 

The problem with the negatives is that the camera had lots of image to the R or the R frame and to the L of the L frame.  If you adjusted it so the frames match, you get extreme popout and window violation.  If you correct this by moving the image behind the frame, you cut off a significant portion of the image.  So I sort of cheated.  I moved the portions that would be cut off to the other frame.  In other words the part of the image to the R of the R frame was moved to the R of the L frame and visa versa.  This requires careful adjustment and alignment.  Then the frame is set to include most of the image.  Your brain readily accepts this as it is just like looking through a window.  You end up with a high resolution landscape view.  Since I post them at very high resolution you can zoom in and peruse details.

 

The 3D cards did not pose a problem because they are in portrait orientation, so lots of detail had to be cropped.

 

One of the VM pictures was only on the LC site as a single image.  So I had to figure out which side was shown and match up the single image to its VM other side mate.  Since the VM image was smudgy, the two images were slightly mismatched.  It turns out that the brain takes details from the sharpest image, so the overall look was pretty good.

 

I took similar liberties with the other historical VM pictures such as the series of reels of old time transportation.  My object was to help people see the details of the pictures rather than just recreating the VM experience.  Of course I removed all defects that I could, without changing the basic image.  However one sailing ship image had been done by the cha-cha method, with the camera moved over and significant time lag between the shots.  So I took the liberty of making the two frames match by rearranging a few small details.  But I also provided a copy of the original so viewers could view it for historical details, and also experience what their grandmother might have seen.  The original had people  teleporting to 2 different places, and horse beamed behind a closed door.

 

There is an outfit that can sell you colorized 3D Civil War cards, but I gave mine for free in glorious B&W.

 

John M. Clement

 


The big problem with 3D photo closups.

John Clement
 

The big problem is the differing displacement between near and far objects.  One can take a closeup and then realign it for comfortable viewing, but that can move the far objects too far apart.  You can cross your eyes to see things up close but making them go wall eyed is impossible for most people.  Since the two 3D lenses do not converge for clos objects, part of the object is cut off on L & R.

 

Yes, there is a distortion of size when you put photos into closeup mounts, or adjust digital photos for good viewing of closeups.  When taking a closeup you must make sure there is limited depth so the far points will not be farther apart than eye separation.  The alternative is to do closeups with lenses that are close together.  Cyclopital had a closeup attachment which used mirrors to achieve this with the W3.  A much cheaper alternative it to get an LG Thrill phone.  Of course the resulting photo is Brobdingnagian with the subject appearing to be much larger than real life.  Maybe the term O’Keefian might be a good description.

 

Now if you have a 180 view you can take a closeup, and the viewer would have to cross their eyes quite a bit.  I can look at my watch 6 inches from my face, with the help of my progessives, but I do feel some muscle strain.

 

John M. Clement

 


Re: Measure Your Pupillary Distance #theory #viewing #howto

Depthcam
 

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 02:51 PM, Bill Costa wrote:
Thanks for posting that. I saw this device described briefly in
a different venue, but there was little information so I didn't
bother to share it.
It's merely a prototype and a hands-on reviewer pointed out that it is somewhat front heavy and would constantly fall off his nose !!! ;-)

At the moment, I am more curious about the Huawei glasses (that I mentioned in a post on Fuji3D) since they are IMAX-certified and are currently available.  The catch is they can only be connected to a Huawei phone or to a Windows 10 computer.

I am just waiting for some of the "better-off" members of our community to get a pair and report back as they are somewhat on the expensive side !

Francois

Francois


Re: First true 3D camera announced for 2020

Depthcam
 

> Hey guys, you have never looked at something 12 inches from your eyes? :)


Looking at something at 12" from one's eyes is not the problem here.  In real life, our eyes have a very wide field of view and are looking at the subject where it is really located.

The problem is that when you take pictures at that distance with a "normal" interaxial, you then change those conditions at the viewing stage.  When one is using a normal or longer lens - your foreground subject may end up very close to the border of each frame.

Ah... but you will argue...  There are two good solutions to that:

A) Back in the days of the Realist, we would shoot at close range with a "normal" base and then mount the images in narrow "close-up" mounts.  This allowed us to pull the film chips out so as to place the close range subject behind the window

B) using separate cameras, we can also just converge on the subject so that it is centered in the image frame.

But in both cases, when we view the picture, it is placed at a virtually greater distance than when we looked at it.  And that results in the effect we call "stretch".  Few people really figured out what causes this effect.  I figured it out by taking a pen and bringing it close to my eyes.  I noticed that when I closed one eye and then the other looking at both sides of the pen, I could see more around the pen as it got closer to my eyes.  That actually was the same as if I viewed a longer pen further away from my eyes.  If I take a picture of the pen at the same distance, but then place it behind a stereo window that is "virtually" further away, my eyes will see the pen as longer than it really is.  Needless to say, that effect will apply to any subject.  And whereas it may go unnoticed with a picture of a pen since we may not have seen the original pen and will just assume we are viewing a picture of a long pen, when subjects are recognizable - such as faces - the effect of "stretch" will be disturbing.

That's why it is not advisable to use a normal base at close range unless you are using a camera system that allows you to view the subject with the same convergence and field of view as in real life.  This is when 3D VR 180 comes in.  With such cameras, there is no need to change the interaxial at close range because the 180 FOV allows one to view the resulting image with the same convergence as we viewed the original.

Of course, nothing stops you from breaking those rules for special effects !


> I have used the Sony RX0 rig (60mm interocular) for close-ups in the range of 12-24 inches. If the background is blocked, you can get interesting pictures.


It's true that with very wide lenses, OSD (on-sensor deviation) is not as great.  But you are still likely to get perspective deformations that may not be immediately obvious until you try to shoot people at that distance.  The way around this is to use tele lenses.  But then you will no longer be at 12 inches.


> I personally think that the 90cm close focus distance is a limitation.


It's not ideal, but that's how this lens was configured, unfortunately.  The only way around this would be to use negative diopter lenses.


> Most compact cameras can focus a lot closer than that


But that's because compact cameras generally use longer lenses therefore require a focusing mechanism. With the advent of very wide angle lenses on action cams, many manufacturers simply do away with a focusing mechanism and set the lenses permanently on the hyperfocal distance for the widest aperture.

From what I understand the lens on the Sony RX0 does have a focusing mechanism.  That's what allows it to focus closer whereas with the GoPro, it is the smaller sensor that provides greater DOF.

As I wrote earlier, if one does not plan to shoot 3D videos or 3D 180, an RX0 rig may be a better choice in that price range.

Francois


Re: Measure Your Pupillary Distance #theory #viewing #howto

Bill G
 

Very impressive... 
Kudos to Panasonic, they got a lot of things right in this prototype.  Hopefully this will give this viewer a good chance for success.
The key is, two monocular viewers, which assures concentric eye lens, optical lens and display screen.  This eliminates a lot of distortion and rivalry problems.   Varying lens spacing alone is helpful, but not ideal vs. this design.
It appears they are using a high res screen.  I would love to know more about its rez.  My guess, at best it will be HD per eye,  or slightly above.  Even so, a good start. 
My reservations are... the optics.  They are shooting for 100 deg diag. FOV.  This will require much wider diameter optics, it will also greatly limit the Eye Relief.  IMO, you have to compromise ER for this level of performance in a low cost compact optical product.   As you can see from the pix, your eye glasses will not be usable.  Diopter corrections will allow some spec wearers to use the viewer.   What %, depends on the range of diopter correction in each monocular.  IMO, this is a very sensible compromise to keep the optics small and relatively light weight.  This is the physical laws of optics, lens diameter scales with ER and FOV. 
If the screen chases the imagery with head turning, (VR) then the optics can finally be both low cost and reasonable MTF as its only the center 20 deg of the optical viewing circle which must meet high visual requirements, which can be accomplished at relatively low cost.  
We have all been teased before, but since its Panasonic, a very intelligent prototype and the advent of high resolution small screens, I am hopeful.  

 


On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 12:25 PM <vlarexs@...> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 02:03 PM, Bill Costa wrote:
What I look forward to is a digital viewer with integrated
lens/display modules where the lens is always held centered on
the display, and changing the viewer's lens PD allows you to
center the lenses for each eye
Your waiting could be over if this Panasonic VR glasses concept/prototype gets into mass production:

https://uploadvr.com/ces-2020-panasonic-vr-hands-on/


Re: Measure Your Pupillary Distance #theory #viewing #howto

 

Your waiting could be over if this Panasonic VR glasses
concept/prototype gets into mass production:
https://uploadvr.com/ces-2020-panasonic-vr-hands-on
Thanks for posting that. I saw this device described briefly in
a different venue, but there was little information so I didn't
bother to share it. This article has at least some details.

It certainly would be nice if Panasonic sells this. They have a
good track record of doing things right and building robust
products. I've owned countless Panasonic and Sony products over
the years. I like a lot of Sony stuff, but the Panasonic gear as
always been more reliable.

I hope if they make it, they go after the movie-viewer market
rather than the gaming market, which would keep the cost down.

...BC


Re: New Picture Frames

Stereopix Net
 

Wouldn't this kind of scene be a good candidate to produce 360×180 stereoscopic "video" instead of having a moving head imposing shaky direction of the gaze and its own timing?

JackDesBwa


Le ven. 31 janv. 2020 à 20:40, Roger Maddy <rogerlmaddy@...> a écrit :
https://youtu.be/m7jzDiOdbSA

Let me briefly explain what is going on, here... 
I have to stay on this relatively small piece of carpet, in order to keep from bumping into things, which means, since I can't walk up close enough to the 3D pictures on the walls, I have to make the pictures larger, and that requires larger frames.
So here you go... new minimalist frames that I hope you like.
BTW, the biggest challenge in this situation is I have to keep looking down at the carpet to keep track of where I am.


Re: Measure Your Pupillary Distance #theory #viewing #howto

Vlad
 

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 02:03 PM, Bill Costa wrote:
What I look forward to is a digital viewer with integrated
lens/display modules where the lens is always held centered on
the display, and changing the viewer's lens PD allows you to
center the lenses for each eye
Your waiting could be over if this Panasonic VR glasses concept/prototype gets into mass production:

https://uploadvr.com/ces-2020-panasonic-vr-hands-on/


Re: First true 3D camera announced for 2020

George Themelis
 

Hey guys, you have never looked at something 12 inches from your eyes? :)
 
I have used the Sony RX0 rig (60mm interocular) for close-ups in the range of 12-24 inches. If the background is blocked, you can get interesting pictures.
 
I personally think that the 90cm close focus distance is a limitation. Yes, you can use close-up lenses, but this is an extra thing to carry. Most compact cameras can focus a lot closer than that. Example: The Sony RX100 can focus as close as 5cm (2 inches) at the wide angle setting. The Fuji W3 can focus down to 8 cm (3.3 inches) which is good to have when using the Advanced 3D mode for hypostereos.
 
George
 
 
 

Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] First true 3D camera announced for 2020
 
Good point, even if we dispense with the usual 1:30 rule and adopt a 1:15 rule (due to the use of wide angle lenses), that still gives us a closest object distance of 90 cm, which is just under 36".


New Picture Frames

 

https://youtu.be/m7jzDiOdbSA

Let me briefly explain what is going on, here... 
I have to stay on this relatively small piece of carpet, in order to keep from bumping into things, which means, since I can't walk up close enough to the 3D pictures on the walls, I have to make the pictures larger, and that requires larger frames.
So here you go... new minimalist frames that I hope you like.
BTW, the biggest challenge in this situation is I have to keep looking down at the carpet to keep track of where I am.


Re: First true 3D camera announced for 2020

DaveJes1979
 

Good point, even if we dispense with the usual 1:30 rule and adopt a 1:15 rule (due to the use of wide angle lenses), that still gives us a closest object distance of 90 cm, which is just under 36".


Re: The future of 3D: VR, AR, Automultiscopic & Lightfield Displays and Images #futureOf3D #viewing

 

Not a case, but black rapid has a strap that uses a tripod
socket to attach to.
I've seen these but have not tried one as of yet.

Last year I did get a cheap Chinese knock-off of their double
dual camera shoulder strap to see if I could adapt it as a
'better' type of neck strap. Lots of these on eBay and
Amazon...

https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=Double+Dual+Camera+Shoulder+Strap+Quick+Rapid+Sling

Just scroll down past the $80 ones at the top of the page to find
the knockoffs.

The strap sits in a box on the shelf. Another project on the
shelf waiting for some free time.

...BC


Re: The future of 3D: VR, AR, Automultiscopic & Lightfield Displays and Images #futureOf3D #viewing

Dan Vint
 

Not a case, but black rapid has a strap that uses a tripod socket to attach to. If you go to Really Expensive, I mean Right Stuff, they have a QD and strap. Same approach but it uses a quick disconnect attachment. It uses a different hole in their base plates.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Costa <Bill.Costa@...>
Date: 1/31/20 5:48 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@Photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] The future of 3D: VR, AR, Automultiscopic & Lightfield Displays and Images #futureOf3D #viewing

> Having seen your very neat Samsung rig outfitted with a handle
> grip, I suspect you would agree with that ! ;-)

There's a lot to like about the pistol grip with the shutter
release trigger.  It's great, for example, for the over-the-head
point-and-hope shots.  I like the grip so much that one of the
projects on my list is to upgrade the handle from the original
mushy leaf-spring contacts to a nice tactile switch with a two
click feel like the camera's own shutter release.

But what I really want is a kind of ever-ready case that encloses
the wires and protects the connectors, and provides lugs for a
camera strap.  The problem with the pistol grip is that I have to
unplug the cables and remove it to put the camera in the camera
bag.  This means while touring I have a tendency to leave the
camera out of the bag and assembled, and carry it by the handle
rather returning it to the bag.  Carrying the camera like this,
for hours at a time, just increased the risk of a mishap.  It is
also inconvenient to not have both hands free most of the time.

...BC




Re: The future of 3D: VR, AR, Automultiscopic & Lightfield Displays and Images #futureOf3D #viewing

 

Having seen your very neat Samsung rig outfitted with a handle
grip, I suspect you would agree with that ! ;-)
There's a lot to like about the pistol grip with the shutter
release trigger. It's great, for example, for the over-the-head
point-and-hope shots. I like the grip so much that one of the
projects on my list is to upgrade the handle from the original
mushy leaf-spring contacts to a nice tactile switch with a two
click feel like the camera's own shutter release.

But what I really want is a kind of ever-ready case that encloses
the wires and protects the connectors, and provides lugs for a
camera strap. The problem with the pistol grip is that I have to
unplug the cables and remove it to put the camera in the camera
bag. This means while touring I have a tendency to leave the
camera out of the bag and assembled, and carry it by the handle
rather returning it to the bag. Carrying the camera like this,
for hours at a time, just increased the risk of a mishap. It is
also inconvenient to not have both hands free most of the time.

...BC


Re: RoKit RoKFlix3d

Mary Paul
 

Thanks Dorothee,
My free 3 months has expired but I haven't gotten around to renewing the ROKFLIX service although I really liked it.
I ended up getting busy and didn't find time to look at the content for a while.

In the UK it is £3.50/month for the ROKFLIX service.

That is a little more than the US monthly fee.

Below is the link to the ROKiT UK services website which also shows the other services you can get for a fee with your ROKiT phone.


Mary in Berkshire

Re: RoKit RoKFlix3d
From: Dorothée H.
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 03:52:41 GMT

This is an "old" topic but I just discovered that after the 3 month trial now the RokFlix3D app is $2.99, but I don't know if it is annual or monthly fee for Warner Bros & NBC Univeral on the RoKit US website https://rokitphones.com/us/entertainment/
I don't know if the info is already on another thread I thought I'd share
Doro



Re: The future of 3D: VR, AR, Automultiscopic & Lightfield Displays and Images #futureOf3D #viewing

Depthcam
 

Another thing I should point out about that mini rig is that the release button is part of a very tough mini flashlight aluminum body mounted on the faceplate that serves as a handle grip and makes the rig very easy to hold and shoot with one hand - much more so than the slippery body of the W3.  In fact, many people recommenced using a camera grip to hold the W3 more securely.  That's why on my picture, I show such a grip mounted on the W3 in a similar position.  However, for the W3, I think it best to mount a small handle grip to the tripod socket.  In fact, back in the day up till a few years ago, a company called "Camgrip" produced quite a well made little handle grip that fit the W3 perfectly.

Having seen your very neat Samsung rig outfitted with a handle grip, I suspect you would agree with that ! ;-)

I also found a small hard shell case that fits the W3 perfectly.  It was sold as a Nintendo 3DS case !

Francois

Francois