Date   

Re: Need some help

Antonio F.G.
 

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:00 AM, William Kiraly wrote:
I’m a fan of the London Stereographic viewer. Inexpensive, allows focus and works great for viewing side by side on print or screen if sized reasonably well.
 
I have one OWL on use and about 4 or 5 of them new. I use them from time to time as gifts, together with a bunch of stereo cards appropriately cut to the OWL size. They provide an excellent stereo experience that can be enjoined by anybody if the cards are well made.
Not that I use it for everyday viewing (I prefer my 3DTV:-), but given the cost and the portability it is surely one of the best options to enjoy stereo.

Because of this I included in the Stmani3 User's manual a procedure to render stereo pairs into OWL cards: https://afgalaz.es/stmani3/en/rendering.html#example-owl-cards
This creates an image that includes an SBS part with cutting guides around. This should be sent to a photo print service, and then cut along the guides. The final size should perfectly fit the OWL frame:


Regards
    Antonio


Re: Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France)
 

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 03:47 AM, gl wrote:
(Huawei P30 Pro New Edition) eg. there seems to be no simple way to upload a depth map pic straight to Facebook as a 3D pic for example... or is there?
I have just tried to upload a jpg taken in aperture mode, so including a depth map, into Facebook, it does not recognizes it. I need to use SPM to extract the depth map from the jpg.
Maybe somebody else knows?


Re: Need some help

robert mcafee
 

It seems the Loreo lite viewer is being discontinued. Loreo has other viewers. 


Re: Need some help

Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France)
 

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 08:40 AM, John Clement wrote:
but the Loreo viewer is very affordable
It seems that the Loreo viewer will be discontinued, to be confirmed.


Re: Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France)
 

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:25 PM, gl wrote:
in one specific camera mode 'Aperture'.  That modes uses it to simulate bokeh.  I'm not sure if any of the other modes record a depth map, probably not.
On my Huawei P30 Pro, the depth map is only generated in Aperture mode (in this mode the images are a bit less good than in the normal or pro modes, and you cannot use the 2.5cm super macro mode).


Re: Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

gl
 

On 02/07/2021 20:17, gl wrote:
On 02/07/2021 20:13, gl wrote:
Here's the sample - 2D + depthmap (not full-res):

https://r-i-l.net/_pics/p30pro/3d/P30 Pro 2D + depth (preview).jpg

Dubois anaglyph (full-res +  a few colour edits):

https://r-i-l.net/_pics/p30pro/3d/P30Pro Depth Stereo sample.JPG
dang, my email program at least (Thunderbird) breaks those links as they have spaces.  If so just copy & paste into your browser.
.. should mention that SPM allows you to choose the deviation amount to synthesize.  my sample uses 60 pixels.

the depth map isn't perfect, but so much better quality than the noisy (totally unusable) mess you get from previous depth cams like the XBox Kinect addon, or the Intel Realsense D400 series I played with.
--
gl


Re: Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

gl
 

On 02/07/2021 20:13, gl wrote:
Here's the sample - 2D + depthmap (not full-res):

https://r-i-l.net/_pics/p30pro/3d/P30 Pro 2D + depth (preview).jpg

Dubois anaglyph (full-res +  a few colour edits):

https://r-i-l.net/_pics/p30pro/3d/P30Pro Depth Stereo sample.JPG
dang, my email program at least (Thunderbird) breaks those links as they have spaces.  If so just copy & paste into your browser.
--
gl


Re: Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

gl
 

On 02/07/2021 18:25, gl wrote:
It has 3 normal 2D cameras on the back + a ToF (time-of-flight) sensor, which records the depth of each pixel (well at a lower resolution) in one specific camera mode 'Aperture'.  That modes uses it to simulate bokeh.  I'm not sure if any of the other modes record a depth map, probably not.

The depth map is stored inside the normal 2D JPG file, and SPM can read it.  It can then synthesize a stereo pair from it.  The result is better than I was expecting, at least on my first test shot. I'll post a sample later.
Here's the sample - 2D + depthmap (not full-res):

  https://r-i-l.net/_pics/p30pro/3d/P30 Pro 2D + depth (preview).jpg

Dubois anaglyph (full-res +  a few colour edits):

  https://r-i-l.net/_pics/p30pro/3d/P30Pro Depth Stereo sample.JPG

If you zoom the anaglyph 1:1, you can see artifacts from the lower resolution of the depth map.  It looks to me like SPM is not upsampling the depth map with interpolation, causing coarse pixel-size artifacts.  I think software could potentially do even better than upsampling, by determining contours from the 2D image such that the depth map could be upsampled with full-resolution edges - but that's quite advanced.

In the meantime though, if you don't zoom in all the way, it looks pretty good to me.  Outdoors might be more of a challenge though, as depth cameras are usually optimised for closer subjects.
--
gl


Re: Need some help

John Clement
 

It is a good viewer and easy to pack, but some people have had difficulty using it, in my experience, while Holmes viewers work wit everyone, especially the kits with big hoods that allow wearing glasses.  The price is certainly right.  Holmes viewer kits can be improved by buying glass lenses in place of the cheap distorted plastic ones.

 

John M. Clement

 

From: main@Photo-3d.groups.io <main@Photo-3d.groups.io> On Behalf Of William Kiraly
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 11:01 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Need some help

 

I’m a fan of the London Stereographic viewer. Inexpensive, allows focus and works great for viewing side by side on print or screen if sized reasonably well.

 

 

Bill

 

—————————————————————————

William Kiraly

Writer / Photographer / Programmer

440-655-7971

 

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "John Clement" <clement@...>

Sent: 7/1/2021 4:54:50 PM

Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Need some help

 

The Rokit Pro 3D can be found for under $100 on Ebay, so that is a reasonable way to get 3D viewing.  An alternative is t get a Holmes viewer kit and print the pictures SBS.  If the W3 pictures are cropped a little, they will look really good on that viewer.  There are other viewers for SBS printed images.

 

John M. Clement

 

From: main@Photo-3d.groups.io <main@Photo-3d.groups.io> On Behalf Of Edwin Clements via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:15 AM
To: Photo-3D Group <main@photo-3d.groups.io>
Subject: [Photo-3d] Need some help

 

Last weekend I went to a wedding and took my Fuji W3 with me, and got a few fairly good shots with it.  I showed the bride and groom the 3D image on the screen on the W3 and they really liked them.  They weren't very familiar with 3D except for View-Masters, and I told them about free-viewing.  I think they could probably figure out how to do it, but I would have to get the images sized to the right size for free viewing, and lined up next to each other on some kind of file or document.  

 

I have run the images through Stereo Photo Maker and separated the left and right images into separate files, and so all I have to do is find out how to optimally resize them and put them together on some kind of document.  Does anyone have any nice quick and easy way to do this?  I would appreciate any advice.  

 

Thanks!

 

                     Edwin Clements

 

 

 


--

--------------------------------------------------------------
William Kiraly
wkiraly@...
Personal Site: www.cohenkiraly.com
Writing: www.befuddledmuse.com
3D Gallery: https://stereopix.net/wkiraly/
SmugMug: https://wkiraly.smugmug.com/


Re: Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

gl
 

On 02/07/2021 14:30, Dan Vint wrote:
Let me understand this better. With a single lens camera, I can run the format through SPM and it will generate a stero image? Is the results something with a standard base or can it be smaller or larger? Standard 8s fine with me if it works.
It has 3 normal 2D cameras on the back + a ToF (time-of-flight) sensor, which records the depth of each pixel (well at a lower resolution) in one specific camera mode 'Aperture'.  That modes uses it to simulate bokeh.  I'm not sure if any of the other modes record a depth map, probably not.

The depth map is stored inside the normal 2D JPG file, and SPM can read it.  It can then synthesize a stereo pair from it.  The result is better than I was expecting, at least on my first test shot. I'll post a sample later.
--
gl


Re: Need some help

William Kiraly
 

I’m a fan of the London Stereographic viewer. Inexpensive, allows focus and works great for viewing side by side on print or screen if sized reasonably well.


Bill

—————————————————————————
William Kiraly
Writer / Photographer / Programmer
440-655-7971




------ Original Message ------
From: "John Clement" <clement@...>
Sent: 7/1/2021 4:54:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Need some help

The Rokit Pro 3D can be found for under $100 on Ebay, so that is a reasonable way to get 3D viewing.  An alternative is t get a Holmes viewer kit and print the pictures SBS.  If the W3 pictures are cropped a little, they will look really good on that viewer.  There are other viewers for SBS printed images.

 

John M. Clement

 

From: main@Photo-3d.groups.io <main@Photo-3d.groups.io> On Behalf Of Edwin Clements via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:15 AM
To: Photo-3D Group <main@photo-3d.groups.io>
Subject: [Photo-3d] Need some help

 

Last weekend I went to a wedding and took my Fuji W3 with me, and got a few fairly good shots with it.  I showed the bride and groom the 3D image on the screen on the W3 and they really liked them.  They weren't very familiar with 3D except for View-Masters, and I told them about free-viewing.  I think they could probably figure out how to do it, but I would have to get the images sized to the right size for free viewing, and lined up next to each other on some kind of file or document.  

 

I have run the images through Stereo Photo Maker and separated the left and right images into separate files, and so all I have to do is find out how to optimally resize them and put them together on some kind of document.  Does anyone have any nice quick and easy way to do this?  I would appreciate any advice.  

 

Thanks!

 

                     Edwin Clements

 

 

 


--

--------------------------------------------------------------
William Kiraly
wkiraly@...
Personal Site: www.cohenkiraly.com
Writing: www.befuddledmuse.com
3D Gallery: https://stereopix.net/wkiraly/
SmugMug: https://wkiraly.smugmug.com/


Re: Need some help

robert mcafee
 

Correcting error in my post for making a sheet with multiple stereo cards. 

In step 5 I wrote to right click to advance to the next image. It should read left click




Re: Need some help

John Clement
 

The lorgnette viewer is difficult for some people, but a Holmes viewer can be used by all.  The Loreo viewer can be had for about $25 including shippin in Ebay and does not pose difficulties for most people.  The Loreo viewer also folds up for compact storage.  Stereo Photo Maker is very uncomplicated for making 3D cards.  Under File click on print Stereo card.  Another alternative is to save the image as a side by side and just print it using a standard photo program.  Use high quality paper, either presentation paper or photo paper, along with the photo setting when printing.  As I recall the Loreo viewer handles 6 inch wide prints.  Some people cannot freeview comfortably, and may need to put the card so far away that the depth becomes very small.  A good viewer makes the depth palpable.

 

Holmes viewers are more expensive, but the Loreo viewer is very affordable and some dealers will let you make an offer.

 

John M. Clement

 

From: main@Photo-3d.groups.io <main@Photo-3d.groups.io> On Behalf Of Boris Starosta
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@Photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Need some help

 

If you are printing for free-viewing then your "stereo card" format should not be more than five inches wide.  Just figure out a way to print the pairs no more than four or 5 inches wide.  Then follow instructions I gave/illustrated on a blog post of mine some time back about how to parallel free view.
That said, I think some inexpensive lorgnettes are easily obtained, and may meet with more success/acceptance in your neophyte audience.
Boris
--
––––

Contemporary work in the Stereoscopic Arts:  www.patreon.com/retroformat

––––


Re: 3D-Con 2021 ‘3D on Social Media’ Special Interest Group #futureOf3D

Stephen Wong
 

I think I've fixed the misalignments, and I've added a few more images. Enjoy.


Re: Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

Dan Vint
 

Let me understand this better. With a single lens camera, I can run the format through SPM and it will generate a stero image? Is the results something with a standard base or can it be smaller or larger? Standard 8s fine with me if it works.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: gl <gl@...>
Date: 7/2/21 1:48 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@Photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

On 02/06/2021 12:34, Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France) wrote:
> I have just purchased a Huawei P30 Pro New Edition, its images are
> incredibly good. It has an optical X5 lens with mechanical
> stabilization etc.. And a TOF camera which embeds a depth map into the
> JPEG files (in Aperture mode). And as opposed to new Huawei phones it
> embeds Google etc. Huge battery life. It costs only 500 Euros, half
> price than recent iPhones.

Thanks for the headsup Laurent!  I was just looking to upgrade my
ancient phone when I saw your message and did some research.  The camera
quality was my main concern, and it needed to be affordable. The P30 Pro
was the ticket and is awesome.  The fact that SPM can even generate 3D
pics from its depth map mode is just sugar.

When I first researched the 3D possibilities I saw some outdoor pics
online that didn't impress me.  But I just tried my first test with SPM,
and it seems to work really well, at least in indoors.

The only downside is that I haven't found an app in the Play Store that
understands its ToF camera (ie. can take depth map pics and do something
with them right on the phone).  eg. there seems to be no simple way to
upload a depth map pic straight to Facebook as a 3D pic for example...
or is there?
--
gl







Re: 3D-Con 2021 ‘3D on Social Media’ Special Interest Group #futureOf3D

gl
 

On 02/07/2021 01:41, Stephen Wong wrote:
Thanks gl for your feedback! That's very helpful.
I'll see what I can do. You've caught me out. I'm stereoblind, so I rely on using anaglyphs to align my images.
Oh really?  you mean you can't actually see stereo?  if so then creating stereo art is quite amazing (in a good way).

I've spent far too many hours aligning stereo manually in anaglyph, mainly with video when the image content broke the auto-alignment. it's amazing how hard it is - I did get better at it, but if you're a perfectionist like me, it can take forever to get a really good match.

Auto-aligners like SPM (Stereo Photo Maker) should be able to do it in one click.  I've  coded one and know how they work, but it still amazes me that it does.
--
gl


Re: Running with Vinny - 3D camera testing - 2. Phone

gl
 

On 02/06/2021 12:34, Laurent DOLDI (Toulouse, France) wrote:
I have just purchased a Huawei P30 Pro New Edition, its images are incredibly good. It has an optical X5 lens with mechanical stabilization etc.. And a TOF camera which embeds a depth map into the JPEG files (in Aperture mode). And as opposed to new Huawei phones it embeds Google etc. Huge battery life. It costs only 500 Euros, half price than recent iPhones.
Thanks for the headsup Laurent!  I was just looking to upgrade my ancient phone when I saw your message and did some research.  The camera quality was my main concern, and it needed to be affordable. The P30 Pro was the ticket and is awesome.  The fact that SPM can even generate 3D pics from its depth map mode is just sugar.

When I first researched the 3D possibilities I saw some outdoor pics online that didn't impress me.  But I just tried my first test with SPM, and it seems to work really well, at least in indoors.

The only downside is that I haven't found an app in the Play Store that understands its ToF camera (ie. can take depth map pics and do something with them right on the phone).  eg. there seems to be no simple way to upload a depth map pic straight to Facebook as a 3D pic for example... or is there?
--
gl


Re: 3D-Con 2021 ‘3D on Social Media’ Special Interest Group #futureOf3D

Stephen Wong
 

Thanks gl for your feedback! That's very helpful.
I'll see what I can do. You've caught me out. I'm stereoblind, so I rely on using anaglyphs to align my images.

Regards,
Stephen


Re: Phereo - revival and community support

Boris Starosta
 
Edited

Jack wrote,
" the limit is quite high (60 over 20 rolling days, with bursts of 20 allowed) and could be changed if needed."
Indeed, if anything, you could stand to reduce the allowed number of images.  I think forcing people to edit their imagery is very valuable - it can't help but improve the overall quality of the image library.  I got bored with Phereo very quickly, back when I first looked into it.  It was very difficult to find good/interesting images.
StereoPix is much nicer in this regard.  As for my own images... I've not invested the time that I should, uploading imagery.
Your faithful supporter,
Boris

PS I want my message to be taken as a vote for keeping Phereo and Stereopix as two separate services.  I would not like to see a single service, and certainly not if it was more like PHereo and less like Stereopix.  I think it's a good thing we have two separate social network 3d image services.


--
––––
Contemporary work in the Stereoscopic Arts:  www.patreon.com/retroformat
––––


Re: Need some help

Boris Starosta
 

If you are printing for free-viewing then your "stereo card" format should not be more than five inches wide.  Just figure out a way to print the pairs no more than four or 5 inches wide.  Then follow instructions I gave/illustrated on a blog post of mine some time back about how to parallel free view.
That said, I think some inexpensive lorgnettes are easily obtained, and may meet with more success/acceptance in your neophyte audience.
Boris
--
––––
Contemporary work in the Stereoscopic Arts:  www.patreon.com/retroformat
––––

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