Date   

Re: Phereo - revival and community support

Depthcam
 

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 05:28 AM, Nicolas wrote:
What do you think about it ?

I think that would be the wrong way to go simply because Stereopix is very little known still and has very few members while Phereo has a reputation that goes back many years and attracts many members - especially from East European countries - that don't know anything about Stereopix.  Also Stereopix has certain rules about posting that don't exist with Phereo.  For one thing, Stereopix is by invitation only.  For another, members are only permitted a small number of postings at a time.

Phereo presents another alternative to postings not only in terms of its rules but also in terms of its structure.  Even though I like Stereopix's website design, I still much prefer the layout and functioning of Phereo.  Even though Phereo may have not been working well over the last month, when it did, it always was clear that there were many more postings on Phereo than on Stereopix .  I think Stereopix was first designed to showcase more discerning photography while Phereo has been for 3D photography in general.  So I think both have their place and that both should remain.

Francois


Re: Please Register for the 2nd Virtual NSA 3D-Con!

robert mcafee
 

Is there a schedule of meeting times yet?  I have assumed a full day of meetings on Friday the 13th and have scheduled a vacation day accordingly. But I would like to know when meetings start on Thur so I know whether I to schedule a full day or half day vacation




Please Register for the 2nd Virtual NSA 3D-Con!

Berezin Stereo
 

Please Register for the 2nd Virtual NSA 3D-Con!

While we regret that the live convention couldn’t be held in Santa Fe as we planned, we are so excited to take advantage of the opportunities the internet offers us to have a global virtual convention. Our goal is to have the same program in digital format utilizing YouTube, Zoom and Gathertown. Some events will be live, and some will be recorded for later viewing. The 3D Theater will be presented live, and many of the shows may also be available on YouTube. The schedule is set up to accommodate as many time zones as possible but is posted for the Pacific time zone.

On Thursday August 12th we will have a welcome event. This will include tutorials for those attendees that need assistance in navigating the various platforms we are using. Following the tutorials will be a Happy Hour Social.

Featured in this Convention is a symposium on the History of Stereoscopic Photography with 12 speakers, Guest speakers, Special Interest Groups (SIGs), many workshops and 3-D theater.

In order to keep the feel of a live convention, a Zoom meeting and a Gathertown area will be available during the convention for attendees to gather and socialize. Closing the convention will be the Digital Image Competition results and the annual NSA awards.

Please be sure to follow the 3d-con.com web site to view changes and additions to the current schedule daily and during the event.

To register for the event please go to:

https://www.3d-con.com/registration.php

For a video on how to register please go to:

https://youtu.be/8SLwgw_c468?t=21

And for a video of the souvenir pack please see:

https://youtu.be/as10NvMe4NU?t=17

Steve Berezin     

Convention Chairman

-- 
Steve Berezin

949 215 1556

www.berezin.com


Re: Phereo - revival and community support

Nicolas
 

In my humble opinion we would do better to concentrate the efforts of our small community in one project rather than in two similar projects at once.  Stereopix works very well, is maintained and state of the art technically: let's give it the possibility to replace Phereo and live a long time.
I would suggest :
- transfer all the photos from Phereo to Stereopix by asking for the agreement of the users beforehand (do we have access to the email of Phereo users?)
- launch a crowdfunding campaign to pay for the operation and ensure the financial sustainability of Stereopix for several years
What do you think about it ?
 


Re: 2020 3D Con Registration Packet?

pg_dss_1
 

HI Robert,

Lawrence Kaufman forwarded this email to me.  I was the registrar for last year's 3D-Con.  Unfortunately, we don't have any more registration packets left from the 2020 3D-Con.  

If you sign up for the 2021 3D-Con, and purchase the Registration Packet, you will receive one this year.  If you sign up by August 1st, you should receive the packet before 3D-Con starts on the 12th of August (depending on whether the post offices send the mail out as they should).

Hope to see you at the 2021 NSA 3D-Con.  Registration is open now.

Barb Gauche


From: Lawrence Kaufman <kaufman3d@...>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 7:57 PM
To: bpgauche <bpgauche@...>; jcb-3d <jcb-3d@...>
Subject: Fwd: [Photo-3d] 2020 3D Con Registration Packet?
 
fyi - 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: robert mcafee via groups.io <geargod2=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Date: Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 4:11 PM
Subject: [Photo-3d] 2020 3D Con Registration Packet?
To: <main@photo-3d.groups.io>


I understood after the 2020 3D Con there were still registration packets available.  If any were still available I would be interested to purchase one.


Re: Phereo - revival and community support

Alex Savin
 

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 06:17 PM, JackDesBwa|3D wrote:
One thing I'd like to know is whether the images published since 2019 are really lost or just not accessible + why (routing errors? bucket limit?)

I'm pretty sure all images are intact - it has to be some sort of routing issue or maybe it is indeed a certificate problem. This needs a bit of investigation.

One option indeed could be "baking" site into read-only mode, with all images pre-generated. I think there's still some sort of processing happening + caching of generated images. I wouldn't be surprised if this is indeed cache that fails from time to time.

I've got some architectural charts from the original devs, let me post some of them in a moment.

Also I'm on London time, but if someone happen to be available like 6-9pm BST or 4-7am BST we could try and have a live catch up.


Re: 2020 3D Con Registration Packet?

Berezin Stereo
 

Hi,

There are registration packets available. Please register here:

https://www.3d-con.com/registration.php


Steve Berezin 
Chairman 3DCON 2021
949 215 1556

On Jun 21, 2021, at 4:11 PM, robert mcafee via groups.io <geargod2@...> wrote:

I understood after the 2020 3D Con there were still registration packets available.  If any were still available I would be interested to purchase one.


2020 3D Con Registration Packet?

robert mcafee
 

I understood after the 2020 3D Con there were still registration packets available.  If any were still available I would be interested to purchase one.


Re: Phereo - revival and community support

Bill Costa as just a member
 

If there are more engineers in the crowd who are happy to spend some time figuring out this legacy project, let's have a catch up.

As I said before, I am okay to help, though I have less time now.

We have at least a few developers on this mailing list, of which I am one.  For myself, my coding background probably doesn't mesh well with the skill set that is immediately needed, but as an experienced programmer I should be able to help in some way.  This is probably the case for others as well.  In some ways the hardest part would be organising a small team of volunteer developers to work effectively on this project, but it certainly is worth looking into.  We'd also need a modest fund raising effort for the hosting costs.  Some of our non-developer friends could help organize that.

...BC

--
Bill.Costa@...
No good deed goes unpunished.


Looking for some help from an Aussie friend...

Bill Costa as just a member
 

There is a clearance item on (2D) photographic item from a retailer in Australia with a very compelling price.  I was hoping to find a fellow photo enthusiast who would be willing to take the time to make the purchase on my behalf and ship it to me.  If you think you can help, please contact me off-list.  Thanks!

...BC

--
Bill.Costa@...
No good deed goes unpunished.


Re: Phereo - revival and community support

JackDesBwa|3D
 

As of right now I have access to the AWS S3 buckets containing all the images currently hosted on Phereo. There are also EC2 instances running the site and db to which I also have access.

Nice! This is a very big step toward a revival.

The question is what can we do with this?

First, do emergency repairs to come back to a website that can be visited.
I think that it is only a matter of renewing the certificate for the "api" domain and make the http server use the new certificate.

Then, a diagnostic?
One thing I'd like to know is whether the images published since 2019 are really lost or just not accessible + why (routing errors? bucket limit?)
Also, I wonder which services are running apart from the web frontend and api interface.

After the diagnostic, we can decide if it is easier to repair and maintain, or migrate the images and the database to another system.
Also, could the AWS products be transferred with data, or should a new system be created anyway for the new organization?

For parts that need changes in code, I see the upload system to avoid flash and the mailing system that failed.
An automatic renewing of the certificates could be worth too.

Depending on the amount of work, maybe only freezing the site could be an option. (better than current situation)

If there are more engineers in the crowd who are happy to spend some time figuring out this legacy project, let's have a catch up.

As I said before, I am okay to help, though I have less time now.
You can contact me in private if you wish.

As for image ownership and changes to the site. I think a message on the site informing of the change asking image owners to delete any images before some date they don’t want to be transferred might be sufficient.

This solution might be the less time-consuming option, but it is better to double the message with a mailing to every user and a way to recover their password.

it is amazing that StereoPix is developed by a single programmer

I think it is a little easier nowadays with frameworks (user management, database access, template system, some security tools, and so on were already coded by awesome guys better than me for the site, and a lot of building blocks for the viewer too)
Sure it still remained a lot of work (~6000 lines for the website, ~3000 lines for the viewer [single line of code are not a fair measure, but it is quite easy to count]), but without deadline and moreover without needing to pay the large amount of time spent, it was achievable [I studied the feasibility deeply and coded a proof of concept before starting for real]

JackDesBwa


Re: Looking for resources for creating 3D drawings

KenK
 

On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 03:28 PM, Paul Gillis wrote:
But if she wants to digitally draw & paint a 2D scene, I only have a vague idea of how to modify it to make the second view.
Paul,
At last year's 3d-Con, Jim McManus presented a 2d to 3d conversion workshop. A portion of this workshop involved techniques using the Photoshop move, skew and scale tools in an interesting manner. It is available as the second half of this video (40 minutes in) on youtube from NSA 3-D Theater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pexYcApLL-w&list=PLRu-Op7T7XbSgeTDWb-8oR7IfIT5gpbbY&index=2&t=2332s&ab_channel=NSA3-DTheater
KenK


Re: Phereo - revival and community support

robert mcafee
 

I would subscribe to Phereo as I have in the past. Others may as well. The problem is the site has gone down many times in the past few years and more recent images still show thumbnails but the images themselves are for some reason unviewable after a few months. The longer this goes on people will view the site as unreliable and move to other venues. 

As for image ownership and changes to the site. I think a message on the site informing of the change asking image owners to delete any images before some date they don’t want to be transferred might be sufficient. Alternatively you could ask members to opt in to have images transferred and if they don’t then those images don’t move over 

I think Flashplayer was in use for some aspects but this is discontinued. So there may be other issues why the site cannot be viable longer term (since it would need too much code to be re-written). 

I very much like the StereoPix site also. I assume a team developed Phereo so it is amazing that StereoPix is developed by a single programmer. I have also contributed financially to StereoPix and encourage others to do as well. Keep in mind the developer of StereoPix has also given us PhereoRoll3D for easy viewing of Phereo images on PC, phone or tablet and he has also created StereoPix rooms used by clubs for online sharing of images for Zoom (or similar) meetings




On Monday, June 21, 2021, 6:24 AM, Alex Savin <karismafilms@...> wrote:

Hello! I though I could provide a bit of an update on Phereo current situation.

I've had a catch up with the original founder of Phereo last year with some goal of transferring it to community support and checking on the costs. As of right now I have access to the AWS S3 buckets containing all the images currently hosted on Phereo. There are also EC2 instances running the site and db to which I also have access.

The question is what can we do with this?

From what I can see there are a few challenges:

1. The photos still belong to their authors and we (probably) cannot freely do whatever we want with them. This is especially true since the "processor" is sort of changing - we'd probably have to establish a new entity and ask everyone on the service to agree for their data to be processed by new owners.
2. The project itself is basically abandoned at this stage. There is no funding too. With funding you could hire some devs to keep it going as is - or even keep improving it. Without budget this is pretty much dead in the water since a project of such scale needs some dev capacity almost daily just to keep it afloat.

Right now the site is maintained by an occasional developer hired by the original founder to solve the random issues arising from time to time. This cost some $$$ which is paid by the founder, and this will stop eventually.

I'm 100% open for suggestions - I'm also a web developer myself, however with a very limited amount of free time I can invest into this project. If there are more engineers in the crowd who are happy to spend some time figuring out this legacy project, let's have a catch up.


Re: Phereo - revival and community support

Alex Savin
 

Hello! I though I could provide a bit of an update on Phereo current situation.

I've had a catch up with the original founder of Phereo last year with some goal of transferring it to community support and checking on the costs. As of right now I have access to the AWS S3 buckets containing all the images currently hosted on Phereo. There are also EC2 instances running the site and db to which I also have access.

The question is what can we do with this?

From what I can see there are a few challenges:

1. The photos still belong to their authors and we (probably) cannot freely do whatever we want with them. This is especially true since the "processor" is sort of changing - we'd probably have to establish a new entity and ask everyone on the service to agree for their data to be processed by new owners.
2. The project itself is basically abandoned at this stage. There is no funding too. With funding you could hire some devs to keep it going as is - or even keep improving it. Without budget this is pretty much dead in the water since a project of such scale needs some dev capacity almost daily just to keep it afloat.

Right now the site is maintained by an occasional developer hired by the original founder to solve the random issues arising from time to time. This cost some $$$ which is paid by the founder, and this will stop eventually.

I'm 100% open for suggestions - I'm also a web developer myself, however with a very limited amount of free time I can invest into this project. If there are more engineers in the crowd who are happy to spend some time figuring out this legacy project, let's have a catch up.


Re: Looking for resources for creating 3D drawings

JackDesBwa|3D
 

If her goal is to do drawings directly in 3D, one of the most impressive artists to do that is Sylvain Arnoux.  He designed a machine to draw in three dimensional space and has been doing this for decades.

Some of his work (and machines) on phereo:

JackDesBwa


Re: Using SPM to manipulate Tri-Delta prism stereo

Depthcam
 

If you mean,  "Can SPM convert head-to-head single images into regular side by side stereo pairs?", the answer is yes.

All you have to do is open your head-to-head single image with SPM.  Then click the single folder icon at the top left and, in "stereo format", choose "Tri-Delta (TT)" and then click "open".

Note that SPM calls head-to-head "TT" for "top-to-top" and "BB" for "bottom to bottom".

Francois


Re: Looking for resources for creating 3D drawings

Depthcam
 

If her goal is to do drawings directly in 3D, one of the most impressive artists to do that is Sylvain Arnoux.  He designed a machine to draw in three dimensional space and has been doing this for decades.

There is a great article about him in Stereoscopy #106.  That article is reproduced on Sylvain's website here:

https://sylvainarnoux.fr/au-dela-de-larchi/

There are countless other methods of achieving similar results.  It all depends whether she wants to first do a 2D drawing and then convert it to 3D or whether she wants to directly work in 3D.  I think nowadays there are computer "mice" that can draw in three-dimensional space as well.  It's all a matter of whether she wants to stick to the old methods or go digital.

Francois


Re: 3d-printed stereoscope update

Depthcam
 

> I understand that method, is it with silicone?


Yes.  They are silicone molds - as shown in another post.


> The problem is that with stereo related products and mechanical moving parts, we require a high accuracy.


The parts he makes are high precision but of course the master must be made slightly larger to allow for shrinkage in the casting process.


> And that little step, I am not talking about 1000 pieces, but just, say 100. is a challenge ;-)


As I recall, the silicone mold is good for thirty copies.  So with an order of thirty, the cost of the mold is divided by that amount.

Find attached a laser gun he produced from original 3D printed parts that is used in a 3D amusement park ride.  It has both mechanical and electronic components.

Francois


Re: 3D-Con 2021 ‘3D on Social Media’ Special Interest Group #futureOf3D New SIG (Special Interest Group) #futureOf3D

timo@guildwood.net
 

Ditto here!

Timo

Sent from BlueMail

On Jun 20, 2021, at 8:07 AM, KenK <stereopicture3d@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 08:57 AM, Linda N wrote:
https://www.3d-con.com/ (Note that the website for this year is a work in progress and does not yet include many details, but registration is open)
Registration to this year's 3d-con is now OPEN 

This was news to me which ties into the topic of social media. I much prefer groups.io, or almost anywhere else, to Facebook.   

KenK


Re: Twin camera Overlapping/Staggering

Antonio F.G.
 

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 09:18 AM, JackDesBwa|3D wrote:
Lets say that the 24mm EFL is used and that the crop is made so that it is equivalent to what a parallel rig would do, the EFL (with 18.4° angle) becomes 54mm (horizontal; vertical FOV is bigger), not hugely high.
So the question becomes: is it better to have a smaller base with a crop factor that limits the wide FOVs, or a larger base with which you will have to shoot from farther away.
If the FOV reduces to half, you have to shoot twice as far to pick the same scene, which perhaps makes staggering unnecessary in some cases.

Anyway I feel staggering may be useful, with your idea of using only the part of the scene that is perpendicular to the stereo base (the real slanted stereo base, B' in your parlance). This would require to cover with tape the right half of the cameras displays to remember that only the left half is useful:-). The reduction of FOV to 18.4° does not look too bad, as it is roughly a 50mm equivalent lens, not too far from natural view.
There is another advantage to the staggering arrangement (that George T, did not sing:-) The shutter curtains move in the same direction which avoids a source of mis-synch. In "Z" arrangements and bottom to bottom the curtains move in different directions which involve a synch difference, even with perfect cameras. Worse, the mis-synch will surely vary across the image.

The only real problems for RX100 staggering are... that I do not have any RX100:-), yet, and then... my alignment procedures are not up to the task:-), yet.

Regards
    Antonio

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