Date   

Re: Will digital 3d images survive?

Bob Aldridge
 

I have been making stereoviews of my primary images, and I've joined the "APEC III" group that shares their stereoviews - basically, every member makes enough copies on their stereoview and sends them to the "Co-ordinator" (currently Steve Hughes) who makes up "sets" of cards - one of each of the submitted images - and then sends them out to the participant, so four times a year everyone gets a batch of excellent modern stereoviews to add to their collections. (The participants pay for the sets of their own card plus the cost of postage both ways).

So, four of my images get spread around each year and, of course, can be "read" without any equipment (although a viewer does make it easier to see them in their full 3D glory!)

In my case, the images are printed on an ex-photo shop Kodak Dye-sub printer, so should last very well into the future...

Bob Aldridge

On 14/05/2021 13:26, KenK wrote:
It has been said the most photographed generation will have no images in the future. We are fortunate to have access to physical 3d media like stereo-cards, view-master reels and stereo slides of the past. Is anyone thinking of preserving 3d images since we've "gone digital".
 
I am looking into using the internet archive but have been hitting some roadblocks. I am wondering if others are interested in this issue or have, even better, taken some action?
 
KenK    


Re: Will digital 3d images survive?

KenK
 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 07:56 AM, timo@... wrote:
Prints from the current era may one day be as rare as or rarer than photographs from the nineteenth century.
 
True. 

Currently, it is great that digital images can be accessed by anyone, anywhere. But their transient nature is problematic. That's why I was thinking like an archivist. Looking for a way to preserve & protect and allow searches and retrieval for the future.  And not necessarily my images but I am thinking about those in personal and group websites, photo competitions, etc.  Not just backing up the images, but archiving them. Ideally you would want to capture the image along with "when, where and what" data.

KenK

    


Re: Will digital 3d images survive?

timo@guildwood.net
 

If you want your images to live on after the medium becomes so obsolete or unreliable it can’t be read anymore, you should print them out in high resolution on archival quality paper. It is possible for digital copies to remain available in the future if they are stored on line, but I wonder who will pay to keep them there once you have passed away. They may, even then, not survive, for example, because of a massive solar flare, as happened in 1921, or the Carrington Event in 1859. 

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/05/13/the-greatest-geomagnetic-storm-of-the-20th-centurymay-13-15-1921a-century-ago-new-york-city-new-york-state-were-especially-hard-hit/

Prints from the current era may one day be as rare as or rarer than photographs from the nineteenth century.

Timo
 

On May 14, 2021, at 8:26 AM, KenK <stereopicture3d@...> wrote:

It has been said the most photographed generation will have no images in the future. We are fortunate to have access to physical 3d media like stereo-cards, view-master reels and stereo slides of the past. Is anyone thinking of preserving 3d images since we've "gone digital".
 
I am looking into using the internet archive but have been hitting some roadblocks. I am wondering if others are interested in this issue or have, even better, taken some action?
 
KenK    


Will digital 3d images survive?

KenK
 

It has been said the most photographed generation will have no images in the future. We are fortunate to have access to physical 3d media like stereo-cards, view-master reels and stereo slides of the past. Is anyone thinking of preserving 3d images since we've "gone digital".
 
I am looking into using the internet archive but have been hitting some roadblocks. I am wondering if others are interested in this issue or have, even better, taken some action?
 
KenK    


Re: Viewmaster Scanner #viewmaster

John Clement
 

Having looked at some of the images, I have a couple of criticisms.  The colors are off in the samples I looked at, and the images are very soft focus.  The images are flattened with not a much range between dark and light.  The original Kodachromes had very high contrast.  The later film stocks were flattened somewhat, but still had reasonable contrast.  He admits that the colors are a bit inaccurate.

 

Part of the problem was possibly induced by inadequate cropping of the images so the auto exposure keyed on the black surround and reduced the contrast.  Some of the reels look like they were originally faded to magenta and the lighting adjustments couldn’t compensate for the fading.  Kodak digital ROC often does a nearly perfect job in my comparison between color corrected faded reels and earlier Kodachromes of the same subject.  Scanners often have good built in color compensation, and the Epson V500 software works nearly as well as ROC in fixing bad fading.  After using ROC the colors are sometimes a little off which can be partially compensated by adjusting the hue angle slightly.  The problem is mainly with in between shades and being able to distinguish between yellow and green.  Even then the delicate hues are still close.  Sometimes shifting individual ranges of colors can help.  Some of the reissues of the original Kodachromes on other stock may have color shifts due to the different material, so the restored color may not match the Kodachromes.  I think this happened with the Golden Book Favorites restoration as it didn’t well match the later Kodachrome scan.

 

For comparison I have posted Kodachrome versions on YouTube after the original color compensated versions.  Examples are Pogo and Wolfman so you can see how well colors can be fixed.

 

The best way to restore Kodachrome is to scan with 16 bit color before adjustments and only reduce to 8 bit for the final version.  A camera that can output a 16 bit color raw image would also be reasonable.  As to scanning the original scanner software often saturates on bright areas which kills delicate detail.  ViewScan works very well and can do two pass exposures which help with very dense slides.

 

His technology is very impressive, and the YouTube videos are a reasonable attempt to simulate the old VM experience.  My restorations are aimed at the 3D story telling.  That is purely personal preference.  There is also a web site with high resolution, beautifully color corrected, VM images but in 2D.  View-Master World (viewmasterworld.blogspot.com) He put the videos onto YouTube at full 4k SBS resolution.  Movie Edit Pro will not output full 4k SBS MP4 videos, so I resorted to 4k anamorphic which makes it 2k horizontal resolution after expansion.  My earliest videos are only 2k anamorphic.  His videos work well with Google cardboard or other similar virtual reality viewers, as well as the ROKIT 3D phone, while mine are supported natively by some 3D TVs and the Commander tablet.  The commander support is fuzzy.

 

John

 

 

 


Re: Need help using an Olympus camera with a Panasonic stereo lens #cameras-issues #macro

Jeff Ewen
 

That model (Olympus PEN E-PL1), is just outside of the list of compatible models

Jeff


Re: Need help using an Olympus camera with a Panasonic stereo lens #cameras-issues #macro

Pierre MEINDRE
 

Hi Paul & George,

"Shoot without lens" is a Panasonic option, Olympus will always shoot without a lens or attached to a "dumb" lens.
The camera must then detect the lens but doesn't know what to do with it.

The camera firmware is, as George wrote it, too old and you may try to update it.
It will be easier to first check first if the camera actually shoots without any lens then tape the contacts of the 3d lens with a tiny piece if thin transparent tape.
Check when unmounting the lens that the tape stays in place and is not scratched by the camera's contacts.

Pierre.

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : George Themelis <gathemelis@...>
Date : 13/05/2021 00:43 (GMT+01:00)
À : main@photo-3d.groups.io
Objet : Re: [Photo-3d] Need help using an Olympus camera with a Panasonic stereo lens #cameras-issues #macro

You do not get any message when you turn the camera on, like “No lens attached”?

 

You can do some research to see if the camera communicates with the lens (it sounds like it does not which would be the case if the camera was introduced before the lens). Check to see if there is a newer firmware and install it.

 

Go through the menus to see if there is an option to shoot without a lens. With this option selected, the camera should work with the lens (even if it does no recognize it) and give jpg files as if the contacts were taped.

 

George

 

From: Paul Gillis
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 4:52 PM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: [Photo-3d] Need help using an Olympus camera with a Panasonic stereo lens #cameras-issues #macro

 

Quite a long time ago, I bought a Panasonic stereo lens for doing closeup shots, and I needed a camera to use it on.  For some reason (probably cost) I bought an Olympus E-PL1.  I  was going to modify the lens for macro, but I put the project aside & never got back to it, until now.

The Oly came with a basic 14-42 mm lens, and it works fine with that lens.

But when I try the Panasonic lens (still unmodified) the camera won't do anything, not even show me the view through the lens.  (Well actually it will turn on & go through all the menus & play back images already on the SD card.)

Can anyone suggest what I should try?  I recall something about taping up electrical contacts...

--Paul Gillis

 


Re: Viewmaster Scanner #viewmaster

JackDesBwa|3D
 

Interesting project.
One other link to share is the channel with the results of the scans: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOirfwqCtgHvdcQz5gyFoTg/videos

JackDesBwa


Re: Need help using an Olympus camera with a Panasonic stereo lens #cameras-issues #macro

George Themelis
 

You do not get any message when you turn the camera on, like “No lens attached”?

 

You can do some research to see if the camera communicates with the lens (it sounds like it does not which would be the case if the camera was introduced before the lens). Check to see if there is a newer firmware and install it.

 

Go through the menus to see if there is an option to shoot without a lens. With this option selected, the camera should work with the lens (even if it does no recognize it) and give jpg files as if the contacts were taped.

 

George

 

From: Paul Gillis
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 4:52 PM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: [Photo-3d] Need help using an Olympus camera with a Panasonic stereo lens #cameras-issues #macro

 

Quite a long time ago, I bought a Panasonic stereo lens for doing closeup shots, and I needed a camera to use it on.  For some reason (probably cost) I bought an Olympus E-PL1.  I  was going to modify the lens for macro, but I put the project aside & never got back to it, until now.

The Oly came with a basic 14-42 mm lens, and it works fine with that lens.

But when I try the Panasonic lens (still unmodified) the camera won't do anything, not even show me the view through the lens.  (Well actually it will turn on & go through all the menus & play back images already on the SD card.)

Can anyone suggest what I should try?  I recall something about taping up electrical contacts...

--Paul Gillis

 


Need help using an Olympus camera with a Panasonic stereo lens #cameras-issues #macro

Paul Gillis
 

Quite a long time ago, I bought a Panasonic stereo lens for doing closeup shots, and I needed a camera to use it on.  For some reason (probably cost) I bought an Olympus E-PL1.  I  was going to modify the lens for macro, but I put the project aside & never got back to it, until now.

The Oly came with a basic 14-42 mm lens, and it works fine with that lens.

But when I try the Panasonic lens (still unmodified) the camera won't do anything, not even show me the view through the lens.  (Well actually it will turn on & go through all the menus & play back images already on the SD card.)

Can anyone suggest what I should try?  I recall something about taping up electrical contacts...

--Paul Gillis


Re: A real-time hyper-stereo visual/audio monitoring device!

Greg Downing
 

I remember something like this at Burningman in 2000, it was fantastic out there! So fun to see the puffy clouds and surrounding mountains in 3D. https://www.espressobuzz.net/BurningMan/2000/Art/i-zv8778D/A


Viewmaster Scanner #viewmaster

Jay Kusnetz
 

https://hackaday.com/2021/05/12/scanner-captures-view-master-discs-as-glorious-3d-videos/


Re: Epson Dye Sublimation Printer

Bob Aldridge
 

In the past I've noticed some Epson dye sublimation printers that were designed to be used for transfer printing onto mugs, T-shirts etc. Not sure if they could be used for photo prints... I haven't looked at the specs for this one, but I would like to see a photo print from one before buying...

I bought a Kodak 6800 "mini lab" kiosk printer from a photographic shop that was closing. It uses 6 inch wide media on a roll and can print 8x6 for my stereoviews, but I also managed to find its bigger brother, the 8800, with an 8 inch roll. These machines were bought for just a shade more than the Epson is being sold for.

The 8800 , 8 inch, machine is a little more economical than the 6 inch machine - I can print three "full face" stereoviews or the images only for six stereoviews onto 8 x 12 inch prints. Each print costs me about 40p (aunder 60 US cents) but would be cheaper if I didn't have to ship the media from the USA!

Image quality is superb - better than many "wet" printing machines (Noritsu/Fuji Frontier)  produce in outlets with less capable staff can produce! (Of course, those machines are capable of very high quality, but I tried half a dozen different labs in West London and none of them worked with magnificarion...

Bob Aldridge

On 12/05/2021 01:25, robert mcafee via groups.io wrote:
Epson has released a new desktop (8.5") dye-sub printer - Epson SureColor F170.  It is designed for and targeted for printing advertising/marketing items with media for transfer to both rigid and soft media.  Price is $399.  

I don't know if they have media for photo printing purposes.  I have a much older Olympus P400 Dye-Sub (actually it is dye diffusion) printer.  The advantage of such printers is when printing stereo cards there are NO Dots!  The Olympus used a color film. This Epson uses inks/dyes.

Might be worth checking one out if you like to print stereo cards.

Bob in Central NY


Past APEC III Members

Steve A. Hughes
 

APEC III 100th card exchange

The beginning of next November, the Amateur Photographic Exchange Club (APEC III) will be celebrating its 100th exchange. It has been in operation for over 24 years and in that time has had many members come and go. I would like to invite past members to join us for the 100th exchange. I realize that many people who were members in the early days of the organization may no longer have all the materials needed to make cards. If there’s anyone who would like to be part of the 100th exchange but feels like they would need a little help, please contact me.

Since being part of an exchange involves making stereo cards and people need to know how many cards are required well in advance, if you are interested in joining us, please let me know by August 15th.

By the way, if you would like to be a part of the 100th exchange, even though you have not been a past member, it would be a great time to join the group.

What is the Amateur Photographic Exchange Club?

The Amateur Photographic Exchange Club III traces its start back to 1861 with the original American APEC organization. The current group started in March 1997. The way the club functions is that each member makes enough cards for all the other members to have one and sends them to a central person who redistributes the cards to all the other members. This means that if there are 20 members each member makes 20 cards and sends them in. They are collated into sets containing one of each card and sent back to the members. In some ways this is like a folio except for the fact that you get to keep the cards. If you’re interested in making stereo cards, and would like to share them with someone who will appreciate them, this organization is a great way to do it. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me directly.

Thank you,

Steve Hughes

 


Epson Dye Sublimation Printer

robert mcafee
 

Epson has released a new desktop (8.5") dye-sub printer - Epson SureColor F170.  It is designed for and targeted for printing advertising/marketing items with media for transfer to both rigid and soft media.  Price is $399.  

I don't know if they have media for photo printing purposes.  I have a much older Olympus P400 Dye-Sub (actually it is dye diffusion) printer.  The advantage of such printers is when printing stereo cards there are NO Dots!  The Olympus used a color film. This Epson uses inks/dyes.

Might be worth checking one out if you like to print stereo cards.

Bob in Central NY


Re: Lume Pad now supports MPO and JPS, and automatic SBS detection - #formats #mpo #android #software

Depthcam
 

As I pointed out from the onset, adding MPO compatibility opens up a whole new market of owners of the many cameras that record stereo images as MPO files that are looking for a larger 3D display..

To name a few:
Fuji W1
Fuji W3
Lumix 3D1
Lumix 3D lens
HTC Evo 3D
JVC TD1

Also, quite a number of Sony cameras had a "3D sweep panorama" mode that recorded a stereo pair as an MPO file.  Some examples are the NEX-7, NEX-5N, NEX-C3, Alpha SLT-A35, Alpha SLT-A37 (all APS-C cameras) as well as several compact models such as the DSC-WX5, DSC-WX30, DSC-WX50, DSC-WX60 and TX9.



Most of those those cameras mainly relied on people having a 3D TV. Being able to play those files on a Lume Pad without any fuss certainly is a plus and it might be worth advertising that point in your publicity.

Francois


Re: Lume Pad now supports MPO and JPS, and automatic SBS detection - #formats #mpo #android #software

Bob Aldridge
 

Great! It's one of those problems that's easy to fix if it's been thought about - and impossible if it hasn't!

Bob Aldridge

On 07/05/2021 20:29, Nima wrote:
Great question Bob. Our data shows that it gets full width SBS right 99.6% of the time or more, and gets half width right about 97% of the time or more.

In those rare cases it gets it wrong, it’s very easy to change the “3D tagging” right from the image. And if it failed to add a 3D tag where there should be one (e.g. an SBS slipped through the cracks) you can easily add the tag yourself with a couple taps. No manual file renaming needed ever again!


Re: Lume Pad now supports MPO and JPS, and automatic SBS detection - #formats #mpo #android #software

Nima
 

Great question Bob. Our data shows that it gets full width SBS right 99.6% of the time or more, and gets half width right about 97% of the time or more.

In those rare cases it gets it wrong, it’s very easy to change the “3D tagging” right from the image. And if it failed to add a 3D tag where there should be one (e.g. an SBS slipped through the cracks) you can easily add the tag yourself with a couple taps. No manual file renaming needed ever again!


Re: Lume Pad now supports MPO and JPS, and automatic SBS detection - #formats #mpo #android #software

Depthcam
 

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 03:22 AM, Bob Aldridge wrote:
But how easy is it to over-ride e.g. the half-width detection

That's always been a problem with SBS auto-detection.  That's why I eventually adopted MPO exclusively.  Too often, narrow SBS is interpreted as HSBS and stretched along the horizontal.

Francois


Re: Lume Pad now supports MPO and JPS, and automatic SBS detection - #formats #mpo #android #software

Bob Aldridge
 

That's really good!

But how easy is it to over-ride e.g. the half-width detection in the (hopefully rare) occasions when it gets it wrong? (Increasingly, sequential vertical images are taken with phones that can have similar proportions to squeezed pairs when stored as HSBS pairs)

Bob Aldridge

On 07/05/2021 08:44, Nima wrote:

Hi everyone,

We had received some feedback from enthusiasts on this forum and elsewhere about supporting MPO and JPS images, so I wanted to let you know we added support for them on Lume Pad. Now they display automatically in 3D when you open them in the LeiaPlayer app. There are a few other features we've added as well, including automatic detection of SBS (full width and half width) images.

https://forums.leialoft.com/t/leiaplayer-version-2-16-now-available/1146

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