Date   

3D Capture with Phone and LED lights

robert mcafee
 


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

JackDesBwa|3D
 

Thanks Antonio for having the motivation to read these math and give us some results.
I indeed read that the cameras themselves are toed-in, even without rotating the mast.

Also, I tested your formula for focal with one photo (black lines cropped) among those used to make the following panorama (done to check my ability to assemble such images).
I used hugin and let it compute the angle of view: its result was 19.480°.
Picking one of the photos, and applying your formula with appropriate vectors and image size, I found 19.478°.
This let me conclude that your understanding is very likely right!

little_planet.jpg

JackDesBwa


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

Antonio F.G.
 

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 11:05 PM, Gordon Au wrote:
(just using a estimate of 50º for HFOV)
Reading the CAHVOR document I finally was able to tell the exact focal length of each photo from its JSON data. It is pretty contorted, but works.
Take one of the photos of your "World of Depth": ZLF_0004_0667302970_000FDR_N0010052AUT_04096_110085J
Part of the corresponding JSON file tells:
"camera_model_component_list": "(0.778436,0.43686,-1.9851);(0.939003,-0.34382,0.00873793);(5841.3,13738.2,-63.0136);(597.925,-130.947,14913.5);(0.940841,-0.338771,-0.00824253);(0.000248778,0.451489,0.0805887)"
The "camera_model_component_list" has 6 vectors of three dimensions, which are named successively: C,A,H,V,O,R (do you guess why?:-)
The focal length is given in pixels, and because the pixels of the sensor may not be exactly square, they give two different focal lengths for the H and V directions. But for the MastCam-Z cameras, the difference is very tiny.
The focal length in the H direction: hs=|A x H|  In the V direction it is: vs=|A x V|  These are the modules of the "cross products" of the vectors. Why is it so contorted? have no idea:-)

Lets calculate the focal for the image above. Open a Python3 interactive terminal, and then insert the values of the vectors A, H and V from the JSON as shown below:
~$  python3
Python 3.8.5 (default, Jan 27 2021, 15:41:15)
[GCC 9.3.0] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import numpy as np
>>> import numpy.linalg as la
>>> import math
>>> la.norm(np.cross([0.939003,-0.34382,0.00873793], [5841.3,13738.2,-63.0136]))
14909.29871348824
>>> la.norm(np.cross([0.939003,-0.34382,0.00873793], [597.925,-130.947,14913.5]))

14907.973287166416
>>> 2*math.atan(1600/(2*14909))*180/math.pi

6.142961619503962

The H and V focal lengths are essentially the same: 14909 pixels
The HFOV is 6.1°, far from the 50° assumed

Still I do not fully understand the CAHVOR, but it is clear this is intended to make stereo-photogrametric measurements.  I guess it may be possible to calculate the exact position of any point in the scene from the CAHVOR data and the stereo disparity. It should be possible to make depth maps, but not sure whether it is useful to make stereo shows.

I made an aligned stereo from the three photos in my post above, which is a single R image that has half stereo coverage with two L images.
First I mixed the two L images in HUGIN, using "rectilinear" for the lens and the projection. And of course 6.1° HFOV. I got this panoramic:
Then I aligned this L panoramic with the single image of the R side in STMANI3. It aligned quite well (about 0.1% Vertical error). I noticed the L panoramic had a softer focus than the R, which I initially blamed to the HUGIN process. But then I checked the original images were also soft.

I have to improve a few things in STMANI3: In spite the program only works with focal lengths in pixels, I designed the focal input as "35mm Equivalent", which does not make much sense in this case. Other issue is it does not open PNG images.

Regards
     Antonio


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

Gordon Au
 

Jack, yes, I knew they were working on / had started to release the official 360º panos, but didn't know the raw images for those were in the public archives. Wonder if they will release 3D versions as well. I see and it's too bad about the timestamps issue…it may be that they were transmitted/received out of order.

Antonio, I had decent success just assembling a 14-photo stereopanorama using Hugin + SPM. I had to use this order: 1) align the 7 stereopairs first in SPM, 2) stitch each eye view in Hugin (just using a estimate of 50º for HFOV), and 3) align again in SPM. It failed when I tried to use Hugin before any stereo alignment. You do have to remember to crop out the black borders on the raw images beforehand, or they will leave marks on the blended Hugin outputs. My results are here: http://worldofdepth.com/daily/210301.html

- Gordon


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

Gordon Au
 

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 03:51 PM, Jim Johnston wrote:
For those who like to view in parallel format I ran Gordon's image through SPM and PE:
Thanks. FYI this was just an example; I have parallel/cross pairs and custom anaglyphs on my website. This one is here: http://worldofdepth.com/daily/210301.html

- Gordon


Re: Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

robert mcafee
 

Sorry I must have been confusing you with some one else. 



Re: Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

Dariush Radpour
 

"Dariush, I know I have seen some of your images before - I had taken not of them because of my many Iranian friends. " ???!|!|!!!

I didn't get your point Mr. Mcafee! What you mean by your choice because of your Iranian friends? I'm not iranian but Italian.   I don't 

posted to the Phereo before and I have no webpage. I have a page on facebook called 3DME.  

Il lunedì 1 marzo 2021, 20:47:16 CET, robert mcafee via groups.io <geargod2@...> ha scritto:


Dariush, I know I have seen some of your images before - I had taken not of them because of my many Iranian friends. 

Have you posted to the Phereo site or do you have your own webpage? 




On Monday, March 1, 2021, 12:07 PM, Dariush Radpour via groups.io <osservo2000@...> wrote:

 Dear George,, 

well, if I had three questions from the organizers that means they should recieve my message and answer them! In fact after three days of silence  today I recieved a message from the organizers :

( Dear Mr Dariush Radpour, I am very sorry that our office  was not online the last few days
I appreciate your participation and answer here )...

Eventually for some  reason their email contact system was off and.. of course I didn't know that!
So, I'm glad that the contest is still open. I wrongly thought that the Dead-line was the last day of the feb. 2021
The rest, as my negative attituds... and analizing my behaviors remain not important here.
cheers,

Dariush 


Il lunedì 1 marzo 2021, 13:43:19 CET, George Themelis <gathemelis@...> ha scritto:


A couple more comments :)

 

The time to participate is not short. It is an entire month. That’s a lot of days.

 

I wonder what kind of questions Dariush has that he needs to contact the contest director. Everything is very clearly spelled in the rules. What are the three questions? Maybe we can answer them :)

 

I cannot help but notice the negative attitude. He seems to want to complain more than participate.

 

George

 

From: Oliver Hunger
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:34 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

 

hi dariush,

if you really sent your mails to the address you mention below, it's clear you didn't get an answer ;-)

the correct address is: office@...

so, s instead of t

please try again

best, oliver (from phg3d/vienna)

---

Am 27/02/2021 um 15:09 schrieb Dariush Radpour via groups.io:

Hello Dear George,

the time for partecipation is short and that's why I tried to contact the Austrian Contest's organizatores in the last three days but without any success!!! This adress in not exist as I understand : "office@...".. and my three questions remained un-answered! So, I think this 3D Stereo competition is not organized in a serious manner! I have send them my questions in 3 different messages but dead silence was their answer to me!

I'm so sorry, this was my first attempt to participate in any sort of 3D compition in my whole life but as I mentioned.. it didn't work!

Cheers,

Dariush  

 

 

Il lunedì 22 febbraio 2021, 22:11:45 CET, George Themelis <gathemelis@...> ha scritto:

 

 

Try this link:

 

http://www.die3dimensionale.at/en/3d-gallery-en

 

George

 

 

From: Paul Gillis
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 4:02 PM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Germany

 

I went to the link Ray provided, and I wanted to see the results from 2020.  But the link on that page for the 2020 results just took me to "Forbidden: you do not have permission...".  Does anyone know how I could see last year's winners?

--Paul Gillis

 

 


Re: Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

robert mcafee
 

Dariush, I know I have seen some of your images before - I had taken not of them because of my many Iranian friends. 

Have you posted to the Phereo site or do you have your own webpage? 




On Monday, March 1, 2021, 12:07 PM, Dariush Radpour via groups.io <osservo2000@...> wrote:

 Dear George,, 

well, if I had three questions from the organizers that means they should recieve my message and answer them! In fact after three days of silence  today I recieved a message from the organizers :

( Dear Mr Dariush Radpour, I am very sorry that our office  was not online the last few days
I appreciate your participation and answer here )...

Eventually for some  reason their email contact system was off and.. of course I didn't know that!
So, I'm glad that the contest is still open. I wrongly thought that the Dead-line was the last day of the feb. 2021
The rest, as my negative attituds... and analizing my behaviors remain not important here.
cheers,

Dariush 


Il lunedì 1 marzo 2021, 13:43:19 CET, George Themelis <gathemelis@...> ha scritto:


A couple more comments :)

 

The time to participate is not short. It is an entire month. That’s a lot of days.

 

I wonder what kind of questions Dariush has that he needs to contact the contest director. Everything is very clearly spelled in the rules. What are the three questions? Maybe we can answer them :)

 

I cannot help but notice the negative attitude. He seems to want to complain more than participate.

 

George

 

From: Oliver Hunger
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:34 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

 

hi dariush,

if you really sent your mails to the address you mention below, it's clear you didn't get an answer ;-)

the correct address is: office@...

so, s instead of t

please try again

best, oliver (from phg3d/vienna)

---

Am 27/02/2021 um 15:09 schrieb Dariush Radpour via groups.io:

Hello Dear George,

the time for partecipation is short and that's why I tried to contact the Austrian Contest's organizatores in the last three days but without any success!!! This adress in not exist as I understand : "office@...".. and my three questions remained un-answered! So, I think this 3D Stereo competition is not organized in a serious manner! I have send them my questions in 3 different messages but dead silence was their answer to me!

I'm so sorry, this was my first attempt to participate in any sort of 3D compition in my whole life but as I mentioned.. it didn't work!

Cheers,

Dariush  

 

 

Il lunedì 22 febbraio 2021, 22:11:45 CET, George Themelis <gathemelis@...> ha scritto:

 

 

Try this link:

 

http://www.die3dimensionale.at/en/3d-gallery-en

 

George

 

 

From: Paul Gillis
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 4:02 PM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Germany

 

I went to the link Ray provided, and I wanted to see the results from 2020.  But the link on that page for the 2020 results just took me to "Forbidden: you do not have permission...".  Does anyone know how I could see last year's winners?

--Paul Gillis

 

 


Re: Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

Dariush Radpour
 

 Dear George,, 

well, if I had three questions from the organizers that means they should recieve my message and answer them! In fact after three days of silence  today I recieved a message from the organizers :

( Dear Mr Dariush Radpour, I am very sorry that our office  was not online the last few days
I appreciate your participation and answer here )...

Eventually for some  reason their email contact system was off and.. of course I didn't know that!
So, I'm glad that the contest is still open. I wrongly thought that the Dead-line was the last day of the feb. 2021
The rest, as my negative attituds... and analizing my behaviors remain not important here.
cheers,

Dariush 


Il lunedì 1 marzo 2021, 13:43:19 CET, George Themelis <gathemelis@...> ha scritto:


A couple more comments :)

 

The time to participate is not short. It is an entire month. That’s a lot of days.

 

I wonder what kind of questions Dariush has that he needs to contact the contest director. Everything is very clearly spelled in the rules. What are the three questions? Maybe we can answer them :)

 

I cannot help but notice the negative attitude. He seems to want to complain more than participate.

 

George

 

From: Oliver Hunger
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:34 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

 

hi dariush,

if you really sent your mails to the address you mention below, it's clear you didn't get an answer ;-)

the correct address is: office@...

so, s instead of t

please try again

best, oliver (from phg3d/vienna)

---

Am 27/02/2021 um 15:09 schrieb Dariush Radpour via groups.io:

Hello Dear George,

the time for partecipation is short and that's why I tried to contact the Austrian Contest's organizatores in the last three days but without any success!!! This adress in not exist as I understand : "office@...".. and my three questions remained un-answered! So, I think this 3D Stereo competition is not organized in a serious manner! I have send them my questions in 3 different messages but dead silence was their answer to me!

I'm so sorry, this was my first attempt to participate in any sort of 3D compition in my whole life but as I mentioned.. it didn't work!

Cheers,

Dariush  

 

 

Il lunedì 22 febbraio 2021, 22:11:45 CET, George Themelis <gathemelis@...> ha scritto:

 

 

Try this link:

 

http://www.die3dimensionale.at/en/3d-gallery-en

 

George

 

 

From: Paul Gillis
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 4:02 PM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Germany

 

I went to the link Ray provided, and I wanted to see the results from 2020.  But the link on that page for the 2020 results just took me to "Forbidden: you do not have permission...".  Does anyone know how I could see last year's winners?

--Paul Gillis

 

 


New camera from Insta360 (no, not the 3D module yet)

 
Edited

So Insta360 says they are introducing a really really small camera.

https://www.insta360.com/our-next-camera

It would be nice if it could be precision sync'd for 3D of course, but we're
unlikely to be that lucky. Nonetheless, think of how tight of an interocular
that could be achieved with a pair of these -- if the video can be taken at
face value as to its implication of camera's very small form factor.

...BC


Re: Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

Hermine Raab
 

To all interested stereoenthusiats who want to participate in the 10th International 3D Stereo Photo Contest Vienna 2021

there are 30 more days to participate

all information in English and German is available here

There you also find the excellent winner images of the last nine years.

We are online and appreciate your participation

wish you good health in these strange days

Hermine Raab and team

www.die3dimensionale.at , www.3dimensionale.at

office@... , office@...


Re: Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

George Themelis
 

A couple more comments :)

 

The time to participate is not short. It is an entire month. That’s a lot of days.

 

I wonder what kind of questions Dariush has that he needs to contact the contest director. Everything is very clearly spelled in the rules. What are the three questions? Maybe we can answer them :)

 

I cannot help but notice the negative attitude. He seems to want to complain more than participate.

 

George

 

From: Oliver Hunger
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:34 AM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

 

hi dariush,

if you really sent your mails to the address you mention below, it's clear you didn't get an answer ;-)

the correct address is: office@...

so, s instead of t

please try again

best, oliver (from phg3d/vienna)

---

Am 27/02/2021 um 15:09 schrieb Dariush Radpour via groups.io:

Hello Dear George,

the time for partecipation is short and that's why I tried to contact the Austrian Contest's organizatores in the last three days but without any success!!! This adress in not exist as I understand : "office@...".. and my three questions remained un-answered! So, I think this 3D Stereo competition is not organized in a serious manner! I have send them my questions in 3 different messages but dead silence was their answer to me!

I'm so sorry, this was my first attempt to participate in any sort of 3D compition in my whole life but as I mentioned.. it didn't work!

Cheers,

Dariush  

 

 

Il lunedì 22 febbraio 2021, 22:11:45 CET, George Themelis <gathemelis@...> ha scritto:

 

 

Try this link:

 

http://www.die3dimensionale.at/en/3d-gallery-en

 

George

 

 

From: Paul Gillis
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 4:02 PM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Germany

 

I went to the link Ray provided, and I wanted to see the results from 2020.  But the link on that page for the 2020 results just took me to "Forbidden: you do not have permission...".  Does anyone know how I could see last year's winners?

--Paul Gillis

 

 


Re: Exhibition in Vienna AUSTRIA (not Germany)

Oliver Hunger
 

hi dariush,

if you really sent your mails to the address you mention below, it's clear you didn't get an answer ;-)

the correct address is: office@...

so, s instead of t

please try again

best, oliver (from phg3d/vienna)

---

Am 27/02/2021 um 15:09 schrieb Dariush Radpour via groups.io:

Hello Dear George,
the time for partecipation is short and that's why I tried to contact the Austrian Contest's organizatores in the last three days but without any success!!! This adress in not exist as I understand : "office@...".. and my three questions remained un-answered! So, I think this 3D Stereo compition is not organized in a serious manner! I have send them my questions in 3 different messages but dead silence was their answer to me!
I'm so sorry, this was my first attempt to participate in any sort of 3D compition in my whole life but as I mentioned.. it didn't work!
Cheers,
Dariush  


Il lunedì 22 febbraio 2021, 22:11:45 CET, George Themelis <gathemelis@...> ha scritto:


Try this link:

 

http://www.die3dimensionale.at/en/3d-gallery-en

 

George

 

 

From: Paul Gillis
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 4:02 PM
To: main@photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] Exhibition in Germany

 

I went to the link Ray provided, and I wanted to see the results from 2020.  But the link on that page for the 2020 results just took me to "Forbidden: you do not have permission...".  Does anyone know how I could see last year's winners?

--Paul Gillis

 


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

robert mcafee
 

The Martian day is 24 hr 39 min of Earth time. 

Probably the data is the JSON is based on an Earth day. 


On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 3:51 PM, Jim Johnston
<jimjohnston333@...> wrote:
For those who like to view in parallel format I ran Gordon's image through SPM and PE:



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

Antonio F.G.
 

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 05:35 AM, Stereopix Net wrote:

And/or expanding the functionality to search for panoramic-complement images, in addition to stereopairs?

I have no idea how it could be done automatically, and moreover inside the browser.
Perhaps by sorting the individual images in two rows: for the L and R camera (of course I mean the Mastcam-Z cameras that are most photogenic:-). 

If the user could choose between sorting by time (the "sclk") or by the camera pointing bearing (the "camera_vector"), it may perhaps help finding pairs with stereo coverage or possible panoramas.
One trouble: there is not always clear-cut "stereo pairs". Some images are mid overlapped with other two, as I told in a previous post. This complicates making the stereo pairs.

Regards
    Antonio


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

Antonio F.G.
 
Edited

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Stereopix Net wrote:
The script downloads a JSON feed from the site, ....
Just now I am struggling to understand the intricacies of JSON and CAHVOR. I downloaded a paper from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/250082966_CAHVOR_camera_model_and_its_photogrammetric_conversion_for_planetary_applications A bit hard to read, in spite myself wrote a similar paper for the STMANI3 alignment.

But NASA is gifting us with such awesome scenes it would be a shame not trying to convert them to the glorious stereo slide-show they deserve.
Because of Covid we no longer make significant trips to shoot nice stereo photos. Fortunately we now have Mars:-)

My findings of JSON and CAHVOR:
  • I think the time of each shot is coded in the "extended {.."sclk": "667301188.107",...} The number looks like a time in seconds. If you compare the "sclk" from the images of Sol 3 and those of Sol 4, they differ an amount close to the martian day, 24h like Earth.
  • I also found that in spite Perseverance has two Mastcam-Z cameras, it does NOT shoot them in sync. It shoots, say, the L, then rotate a little, shoots the R, rotate a little, shoot the L, and so on.
  • The L and R cameras do not point in parallel.
These photos from Sol 4 show this. They are ordered by pointing angle of the camera:


I took the pointing angle from the first two components of the field "camera": {..."camera_vector": "(0.45931148291491275,0.8882525169910004,-0.006358279771793247)"
I dismissed the Z component. The pointing angle from the X and Y components is atan2(X, Y). In the last example atan2(0.4593, 0.8882)*180/pi=27.3° (at least if I understood well the CAHVOR paper:-)

You can see it looks like a panoramic sweep: 27.34°, 29.68°, 31.93°... but not quite: the images at the sides are taken by the L camera, and the one at the middle is taken with the R camera AFTER the two images of the L.
The scene is awesome, but how to make a good stereo pair from this? It would be necessary to blend the two L images before. HUGIN is probably the right tool, but it is necessary to know the focal length for this (not yet understood the CAHVOR for this:-)

Regards
    Antonio 


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

Jim Johnston
 

For those who like to view in parallel format I ran Gordon's image through SPM and PE:



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: StereoPi v2 #3d-cameras

JackDesBwa|3D
 

Surprised the sharp-edged oscillator signal was not degraded over that distance

I don't remember having measured a signal transmitted like that, but I won't expect it to be completely deformed, especially with a twisted ground wire coming with it.
Anyway, all the harmonics of the signal are not necessary, as the chips generally have an input stage that would reconstruct it, so it is not a problem if the signal is a little degraded (not too much though, and it depends how it is affected).

  ..... or maybe it was as they discontinued that item.

It seems to be still sold in some of their kits.
 
So, is the I2C signal broadcast simultaneously  to more than one camera or do you have to send to each camera in turn ?

I²C is a bus of communication. This means that there can be multiple devices on it.
For that, there is some minimalist hardware parts (inside chips) and moreover a protocol which says which one is allowed to speak on the wires.
This protocol uses addresses to determine it (orchestrated by a master), thus there should not be two devices with the same address on the bus. For example, the EEPROM and the camera modules are connected to it.
But, their addresses are not modifiable, so there must be two buses to use two cameras.

The CAMArray boards of Arducam apparently have a CPLD which likely decode the I²C signal coming from the raspberry and transmit it to each camera separately (and perhaps does some treatment in between), making the raspberry think there is only one camera. The CPLD also probably get the image from the CSI lines and mix the images to return only one CSI signal to the raspberry.

I do not know the product, but it is what I can infer.

JackDesBwa


Re: StereoPi v2 #3d-cameras

David Sykes
 

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 10:03 PM, Stereopix Net wrote:

Thanks for that interesting information.
I do know that site but missed that.

with a twisted pair of wires
Surprised the sharp-edged oscillator signal was not degraded over that distance ..... or maybe it was as they discontinued that item.
So, is the I2C signal broadcast simultaneously to more than one camera or do you have to send to each camera in turn ?


Re: New stereoscopic cameras on Mars

JackDesBwa|3D
 

I just noticed with today's additions that there are some stereopairs that appear to form panoramas!

The pairs from sol 3 already formed a panorama of 142 pairs, approximately 360°×90° (hemisphere "pointing" down), which lead to a tremendously huge image.
The assembly made by NASA/JPL-Caltech/ASU/MSSS in 2D: https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/pia2464-mastcam-zs_first_360-degree_panorama2.jpg [it is equirectangular, but cropped so that it cannot be fed in a VR headset directly]
They also released another (2D) panorama with the same images: https://youtu.be/wE-aQO9XD1g

The images from sol 4 also look like a panorama, indeed. I did not try to assemble them, but it looks like some images did not come back to Earth yet.

Jack, what about sorting the images in your tool by time?

It is already, but as I stated before, I think that this field does not have the right value.

And/or expanding the functionality to search for panoramic-complement images, in addition to stereopairs?

I have no idea how it could be done automatically, and moreover inside the browser.
But if you find a way, the code is available and you can contribute to it as KenK did for ROOMS.

JackDesBwa

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