Date   
Re: Phereo down again

p_thoele
 

... and it works also on Windows XP! Hurra.

Re: SView a universal display application

 

This is a company standard, and not a standards organization
document. Since it is buried on a personal web site, it is not
well known.
VRex was a pioneer company producing stereoscopic software and
equipment including viewers, '3D cave virtual reality
environments', and 3D video cameras. Notice the date of that
document -- 1997. Unfortunately the company did not survive.
But at least the extension of ".JPS" became a de facto standard
adopted by a few other companies. Looks like that's all we got
for a dedicated 3D digital stills format that was adopted by
anybody.

I was aware of it, but there are other firmer standards for jpg
and mpo that I currently can no longer find.
Well for JPG there is this lovely CIPA standard that apparently
went nowhere:

"Stereo Still Image Format for Digital Cameras"

http://www.cipa.jp/std/documents/download_e.html?DC-006_E

You'll need to click past the disclaimer agreement button to
download it.

It's too bad that Fuji and the other camera makers didn't adopt
that standard, rather than the more general MPO format.

Guess I don't understand what you mean by "firmer standards for
... mpo". I think the CIPA "Multi-Picture Format" (DC-007) doc
is as firm as you can get. But as with any voluntary industry
standard, individual companies can follow as much or as little of
the standard as they want. The Bluetooth standard is a good
example of one of the few success stories, but it took hard
work I'm sure.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2061288/so-thats-why-its-called-bluetooth-and-other-surprising-tech-name-origins.html

Worse than herding cats I would think. Hard to get past the NIH
(Not Invented Here) syndrome.

...BC

Re: Phereo down again

ratkins5@...
 

Well, there it is.  Looks like Jack DesBwa has designed a nice little 3d gallery.  I'm seeing at least nine viewing methods for each picture posted there, plus even more options.  Clear, crisp 3d pictures that load almost instantly, even on my old Windows 7.

Well done, Jack!

Re: Phereo down again

4ram3v1ol4ti0n
 

Damnit. Thats not good.
Ok guys for real i havent been posting up on here but like if phereo goes down thats a big hit in my eyes and i sent him an email, but maybe he didnt get it.
But if anyone knows him and can het in touch ill buy it off of him and try to pay my ex or something if he can transfer whatever or i dont know how it works.
But ive never seen a problem that somebody couldnt fix with money so ill step up first.
Like somebody seriously ask him how many grand ill see what i can do.

Re: sView a universal display application

John Clement
 

sView does definitely parse a set of 3D metadata tags, as well as some video
tags. I verified the picture tags using J"PS descriptor editor"
sView assumes that JPS by default means xview SBS, but JPG as monoscopic.
SPM assumes parallel view SBS.

http://www.3dtv.at/Downloads/Index_en.aspx

Is a site with a handy JPS metadata handler. It both reads and writes
metadata for jpg/jps files. Using it I was able to set tags that sView
responded to. I would assume they could be the same tags in the VREX
standard, but my general metadata reader does not seem to detect them.
Unfortunately it does not seem to have a batch capability to set the tags in
multiple files. However one can use a standard file name editor to batch
append the needed suffixes to the 3D files. This is not very pleasing, but
functional.

Stereo Photo Maker does not set the tags, and I assume does not respond to
them. It also trashes existing tags when it edits a file.

The developer of sView is a wizard programmer who also knows the standards.
sView supports more formats that TriDef, but has no gallery.

The 3DTV site also has a 3D reader that hands DVDs, yeeuch. Field
sequential disks are often awful. The ones I have interacted with do not
properly align the R/L frames, and insert the necessary duplicate frames in
L&R asynchronously rather than coordinated. They also have 240 vertical
resolution/eye. However some of the other programs may be useful.

John M. Clement

Re: Phereo down again

Mike Bittner
 

Jack DesBwa set up a website that could use more participation.






Re: Phereo down again

Bob Karambelas
 

I find the overall quality is mostly weak, but that's true of any photo sharing site. There is definitely some great work there if you can find it. And I still find it a good place to 

We have to remember that Phereo, from what I can gather, is one guy in Russia, running one server somewhere. There is no ongoing development, and he does only enough to keep the site running. He once said that the cost of the server isn't a problem, and turned down offers of help on their forum, although that was a few years ago.

Reminder that Phereo started with a contract with NVIDIA, and supplied the viewing apps for their site. When that contract ended, the entire staff left except the one person.

On a site like that, downtime might be something as simple as him doing a database backup. If it goes down and comes back up, that's a sign that somebody is paying attention. That's all you can expect. I'll speculate that web uploading was disabled because a security hole was found and he lacked the means or motive to fix it. Web uploading a common source of vulnerabilities.

With all that said, the Phereo web viewer is still my favorite. That's what makes it frustrating.

Re: SView a universal display application

John Clement
 

This is a company standard, and not a standards organization document.
Since it is buried on a personal web site, it is not well known. I was
aware of it, but there are other firmer standards for jpg and mpo that I
currently can no longer find. I already knew that zero or default indicates
R first or leftmost. If there is no SBS tag, does the default still hold?
Currently the defacto standard would seem to be left image on the left. As
to interleaved format the standard does not specify which L or R will be the
top line, but I suppose topmost could apply to this. Interleaved is
essentially a dead format unless you count screenshots, in which case
horizontal interleaving would be more common.

I would say that any software should take into account both the "standards"
and the common practice. It is a jungle out there.

John M. Clement


It assumes JPS has the image stored cross view, while SPM assumes
parallel storage.  There is, to my knowledge, no standard for JPS,
Here is the full description of the JPS format...

http://paulbourke.net/stereographics/stereoimage/spec.pdf

Re: SView a universal display application

 

As to applications that use the metadata ...
Just to be clear here, there are all kinds of metadata standards.
In a JPEG file you might find...

- IPTC-IIM
- IPTC Core & Extension
- PLUS (Picture Licensing Universal System)
- XMP
- Dublin Core
- Exif

The last one is what most people mean when they talk about
metadata in a JPEG file.

The MPO format has it's own set of extensions to the Exif data,
which is described here:

http://www.cipa.jp/std/documents/e/DC-X007-KEY_E.pdf

The Fuji W3 camera sets a few of these MPO specific tags:

BaseLineLength: 0.075
BaseViewpointNum: 1
MPIndividualNum: 1 (for left) 2 (for right)
RepresentativeImageFlag: 1 (for left) 0 (for right)

I use exiftool to look at the MPO data, Apple's "Preview" program
understands and displays the MPO meta data and shows it for all
of the images in the file. (Remember, MPO is not a 3D image
format, it is a multi-image format which can be used for 3D
images, as well as other applications like panoramics.)

sView - interprets all or nearly all the metadata
This app of course recognizes an MPO file, but none of the MPO
meta data tags listed above can be found in the "image info"
dialog from an unedited Fuji W3 MPO file. Perhaps they are
simply omitted as not being of interest.

As for JPS, sView does not list any of the JPS specific metadata
from an LG thrill 3D phone image -- probably because there isn't
any! But it does have an interesting note at the bottom of the
"Image Info" dialog:

"Stereoscopic format: Cross-eyed (does not stored in metadata,
but detected from file name).

But the image from the LG most definitely is not cross-eyed. So
I'm guessing that sView is assuming that any .JPS is cross-eyed.

Magix Movie Edit Pro - sets the SBS jpg bit
Windows - it can display the thumbnail properly
YouTube - detects the SBS 3D bit
Can't speak to those programs.

Stereo Photo Maker ignores all metadata.
Is that actually the case? I don't know. Again, to be clear,
when I say metadata I mean Exif data in the file itself, not file
extensions or file naming conventions.

So now you have a short list of known applications that use the
3D metadata.
I'm not convinced you and I mean the same thing by "3D metadata"
and in my original post I was talking only about JPS files and 3D
metadata described in the JPS spec.

Now that I think about it, software created by VRex, such as
"DepthCharge Developer Studio", must have set and used the
described JPS metadata, since it was their own standard. But I
don't know anyone who has, or is still using, that software. Too
bad, I'd love to have a copy of it just for grins.

...BC

Re: Google Locked Red Hydrogen One

Rich Dubnow
 

Hello all,
I own my second Red Hydrogen Red phone and I can assure you there will be very little success in unlocking a red phone that does not have unlocked status to begin with.  
My first red was ATT locked and I was assured by the eBay seller that I could unlock it through an online service.  Not at all true.  Fortunately they took it back.  
I then purchased for $150  $250.00 less, an unlocked Verizon phone that works fine.  
Not sure how a red Hydrogen phone can be locked by Google.  Does Google sell phone service?


Sent from Rich Dubnow

On Jan 15, 2020, at 6:31 PM, robert mcafee via Groups.Io <geargod2@...> wrote:

I have seen some Red Hydrogen One phones for sale on eBay and elsewhere that were advertised as Google Locked.  I understand there is software available to unlock phones but may not be available / work for all models.

Can anyone advise if a Google Locked Red Hydrogen One can be unlocked without the original google account information?

Re: SView a universal display application

John Clement
 

As to applications that use the metadata there are:
sView - interprets all or nearly all the metadata
Magix Movie Edit Pro - sets the SBS jpg bit
Windows - it can display the thumbnail properly
YouTube - detects the SBS 3D bit

Stereo Photo Maker ignores all metadata.
Most photo editors do not recognize anamorphic pictures, but some do have
options to correct for them.

So now you have a short list of known applications that use the 3D metadata.
There may be more.

John M. Clement

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Photo-3d.groups.io <main@Photo-3d.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill
Costa
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 11:23 AM
To: 3D Photography <main@Photo-3d.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] SView a universal display application

It assumes JPS has the image stored cross view, while SPM assumes
parallel storage.  There is, to my knowledge, no standard for JPS,
Here is the full description of the JPS format...

http://paulbourke.net/stereographics/stereoimage/spec.pdf

There is metadata support for alternate layouts including interleaved, SBS,
over/under, anaglyph, etc. plus field order.
But the specification says the default is SBS, full height, right field
first. I read that as cross-eyed.

I am unaware of any application that either creates or reads this JPS
specific meta data. It looks like a well thought out standard, but as far
as I can tell it appears to have been pretty much ignored by industry. My
LG Thrill phone does indeed do parallel SBS. Does it set the 'left field
first' bit in the JPS metadata? Beats me.

It's too bad that within this community we cannot claim JPS as
*the* preferred 3D still image format. We could not even come to a
consensus, in this forum, if JPS files should all be LR or RL.
I tried. So is it any wonder the sorry state of any sort of general
adoption of stereographic imaging?

...BC

Re: SView a universal display application

 

It assumes JPS has the image stored cross view, while SPM
assumes parallel storage.  There is, to my knowledge, no
standard for JPS,
Here is the full description of the JPS format...

http://paulbourke.net/stereographics/stereoimage/spec.pdf

There is metadata support for alternate layouts including
interleaved, SBS, over/under, anaglyph, etc. plus field order.
But the specification says the default is SBS, full height, right
field first. I read that as cross-eyed.

I am unaware of any application that either creates or reads this
JPS specific meta data. It looks like a well thought out
standard, but as far as I can tell it appears to have been pretty
much ignored by industry. My LG Thrill phone does indeed do
parallel SBS. Does it set the 'left field first' bit in the JPS
metadata? Beats me.

It's too bad that within this community we cannot claim JPS as
*the* preferred 3D still image format. We could not even come to
a consensus, in this forum, if JPS files should all be LR or RL.
I tried. So is it any wonder the sorry state of any sort of
general adoption of stereographic imaging?

...BC

Re: Phereo down again

timo@guildwood.net
 


On Jan 16, 2020, at 10:01 AM, ratkins5 via Groups.Io <ratkins5@...> wrote:

I'm sure to be in the minority camp here, but I find Phereo to be tedious and uninteresting.  What I see are a lot of oversaturated vacation pics and game shots.  Great platform, but the content, not so much.  

Too bad you chose not to raise the standard of Phereo with better images. That said, there is no need to discourage those of us who enjoy the site. Instead, we may be left with no place to share our stereo images with a proper selection of viewing means, anywhere on the web.

No wonder stereo photography is constantly in a state of “dying”.

Timo


Re: SView a universal display application

John Clement
 

There are still some issues being worked on.

 

sView has an inconsistency in display of SBS videos which have the 3D metadata tag set.  If the video, like most SBS, is anamorphic it displays it unexpanded even though it has 4:3 or 16:9 display aspect ratio.  Both Windows and YouTube correctly interpret this.  Magixc Movie Edit Pro sets the 3D bit, and downloaded YouTube 3D videos should also have it set.  However videos that are not recognized by YouTube as 3d will not have tha appropriate bit set.

 

DVDFab can rip subtitles as well as 3D movies from Blu-Rays to SBS.  The resulting subtitles did not display correctly, but that has been fixed.  I don’t know when this will appear in a new version.  DVDFab did not set the 3D tag, but I have not checked the latest version.

 

To display pictures and videos interchangeably you have to check the appropriate boxes.  There will be a box for both.  If only the picture/slide box is checked, sView will not show videos when you go to a folder containing videos.

 

It assumes JPS has the image stored cross view, while SPM assumes parallel storage.  There is, to my knowledge, no standard for JPS, but the defacto software usage seems to be assumed parallel storage.  The LG Thrill produces parallel SBS images and printed 3D pictures are parallel, but they are assumed to be used with a lorgnette or other viewer.  Arguments center on display, and there is no agreement there.

 

It uses the suffixes -2d for monoscopic, -LR or -RL for full width SBS and -LRQ for anamorphic SBS.  There are separate menus for input and output.  For best usage the input should be set to source.  Other settings will get rid of the “automatic” features.

 

Actually TriDef does have some settings for the order of the thumnails.  These settings allow you to access more images on the trial version.  Since I have huge collection of pictures in individual folders, the gallery is extremely confusing.   I have a set of main folders plus sub-folders.  TDG shows all of the subfolders which makes for a huge confusing gallery.  If it had just displayed just the immediate folders and not the sub-folders it would be vastly more usable.  Also the lack of the title text on the images is a big deficit.  An option for a simple list would have been desirable.  The gallery would also be much more usable if it had a search feature.  SPM has a list with micro thumbnails.  My big problem is that my fingers do not work well on touch screens, so a confusing gallery compounds the problem.  There is a reason for having sub-folders.  They make organization much easier.  Showing everything is rather like trying to find a book in a library where they are shelved by color and size.  I understand some old libraries do this!

 

John M. Clement

 

From: main@Photo-3d.groups.io <main@Photo-3d.groups.io> On Behalf Of robert mcafee via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 8:48 AM
To: main@Photo-3d.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Photo-3d] SView a universal display application

 

I will try the SView update on one of my 3D phones tonight. 

 

Contrary to your preference, I liked the album feature of TriDef Gallery. However, that album feature would have been better if possible to choose display of thumbnails with options to sort by date or alphabetical by file name. I have a lot of images on one of my phones and it was not always useful to have all 3D file thumbnails displayed. So an option to show either all images or a specific folder would have been a nice feature. I would enjoy such features if incorporated into SView. 

 

 

On Wednesday, January 15, 2020, 01:12:28 PM EST, John Clement <clement@...> wrote:

 

 

sView now can handle 2D and 3D intermixed, but there are still some glitches which Kirill is working out.

If you set the display input to source, it interprets the input according to the embedded metadata, but that is seldom there.

  1. Jpg files are by default considered 2D and are displayed appropriately
  2. Jps files are by default considered 3D
  3. Video files have some problems and we are working them out.
  4. It supports subtitles with some adjustability
  5. It uses the TriDef suffixes to interpret the source format
  6. MPO is automatically supported.
  7. Fuji AVI is automatically supported.
  8. It works on every device I have tried including Rokit, LG Thrill, Commander, King 7s,  Windows with LG fpr monitor.
  9. There will be an enhancement to allow intermixing slides and videos in a show.  It has the option of selecting videos, slides, or both in the trial version I have.
  10. The android version had 2 separate apps for video or slides, but they now are integrated and switch according to format.

 

We have been working on the Windows version, but once it is OK, an Android version will also be updated.  This comes close to being what is needed for 3D to become popular, however the options may still be too geeky for some folks.

 

There is no gallery function, but if you have a large number of folders with videos or slides a gallery can be more of a nuisance than a help.  I find a well ordered list of names to be quite adequate, but I also know how to use manual typewriters, card catalogs and phone books.  Have you seen any of these lately???  I find the TriDef gallery on Android to be a real nuisance and wish it had just a simple list.

 

Isaac Asimov was speaker at an RPI graduation.  During the introduction the answers he gave on his bio sheet were read.  To the question “Dr. Asimov to what do you attribute your prolific success as an author?”; he replied “To my ability to type 32 correct words per miute.”

 

John M. Clement

_,_._,_

Re: Phereo down again

ratkins5@...
 

I'm sure to be in the minority camp here, but I find Phereo to be tedious and uninteresting.  What I see are a lot of oversaturated vacation pics and game shots.  Great platform, but the content, not so much.  

Re: SView a universal display application

robert mcafee
 

I will try the SView update on one of my 3D phones tonight. 

Contrary to your preference, I liked the album feature of TriDef Gallery. However, that album feature would have been better if possible to choose display of thumbnails with options to sort by date or alphabetical by file name. I have a lot of images on one of my phones and it was not always useful to have all 3D file thumbnails displayed. So an option to show either all images or a specific folder would have been a nice feature. I would enjoy such features if incorporated into SView. 


On Wednesday, January 15, 2020, 01:12:28 PM EST, John Clement <clement@...> wrote:


sView now can handle 2D and 3D intermixed, but there are still some glitches which Kirill is working out.

If you set the display input to source, it interprets the input according to the embedded metadata, but that is seldom there.

  1. Jpg files are by default considered 2D and are displayed appropriately
  2. Jps files are by default considered 3D
  3. Video files have some problems and we are working them out.
  4. It supports subtitles with some adjustability
  5. It uses the TriDef suffixes to interpret the source format
  6. MPO is automatically supported.
  7. Fuji AVI is automatically supported.
  8. It works on every device I have tried including Rokit, LG Thrill, Commander, King 7s,  Windows with LG fpr monitor.
  9. There will be an enhancement to allow intermixing slides and videos in a show.  It has the option of selecting videos, slides, or both in the trial version I have.
  10. The android version had 2 separate apps for video or slides, but they now are integrated and switch according to format.

 

We have been working on the Windows version, but once it is OK, an Android version will also be updated.  This comes close to being what is needed for 3D to become popular, however the options may still be too geeky for some folks.

 

There is no gallery function, but if you have a large number of folders with videos or slides a gallery can be more of a nuisance than a help.  I find a well ordered list of names to be quite adequate, but I also know how to use manual typewriters, card catalogs and phone books.  Have you seen any of these lately???  I find the TriDef gallery on Android to be a real nuisance and wish it had just a simple list.

 

Isaac Asimov was speaker at an RPI graduation.  During the introduction the answers he gave on his bio sheet were read.  To the question “Dr. Asimov to what do you attribute your prolific success as an author?”; he replied “To my ability to type 32 correct words per miute.”

 

John M. Clement

_,_._,_

Re: Phereo down again

timo@guildwood.net
 

I’m working on the assumption that it is down to allow for upgrades of the site and restoration of images that were not loading. 

Positive thinking.

Timo

On Jan 16, 2020, at 6:16 AM, robert mcafee via Groups.Io <geargod2@...> wrote:

Tried accessing Phereo from the wonderful PhereoRoll3D app and from Phereo's own app but no images load in either app.

Hoping it may be fixed soon. I really enjoy viewing the many great images posted to Phereo and the flexibility to view any of those images either as anaglyph, on my 3d glasses free display phone or tablet, or on my NVidiav 3D Vision laptop.

Re: Not Sure What's Up With This

Lawrence W Kaufman
 

Mark Kernes wrote:
... but it "includes 3D glasses":
https://www.budsartbooks.com/index.php/league-of-extraordinary-gentlemen-volume-4-9768.html

This is the book version of the five series comic books
League of Extraordinary Gentleman: Tempest from 2018/2019.
Book 3, 4 and 5 contained some 3D pages, with glass in #3.

Charles Barnard and Christian LeBlanc teamed up and converted several
sections of
the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Tempest comic series to 3D.
Reportedly the
last installment of the series by writer Alan Moore and artist Kevin
O’Neil. Issue number 3
is subtitled ‘Mina for Young Ladies,’ issues #4 and #5 also include some 3D.

You may also recall 2007 graphic novel ‘The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen:
The Black Dossier’ and the 2008 hardbound version, written by Alan
Moore with art
and cover by Kevin O'Neill. It was the next chapter in the League of
Extraordinary
Gentlemen and included a 3D section complete with custom glasses, as well as
additional text pieces, maps, and a stunning cutaway double-page
spread of Captain
Nemo's Nautilus submarine by Kevin O'Neill. It was 208 pages with two covers.
The absolute Edition ($99.00) also featured 3-D endpapers by Ray Zone and it
had more than one printing of hardbound version.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 4:55 PM markkernes <mark.kernes@...> wrote:

... but it "includes 3D glasses":

https://www.budsartbooks.com/index.php/league-of-extraordinary-gentlemen-volume-4-9768.html

Mark Kernes
--
Lawrence Kaufman
For info about 3-D photography and 3-D events check these websites:
stereoworld.org ISU3D.org 3-DSPACE.org la3dclub.com

Phereo down again

robert mcafee
 

Tried accessing Phereo from the wonderful PhereoRoll3D app and from Phereo's own app but no images load in either app.

Hoping it may be fixed soon. I really enjoy viewing the many great images posted to Phereo and the flexibility to view any of those images either as anaglyph, on my 3d glasses free display phone or tablet, or on my NVidiav 3D Vision laptop.

For The Scots Australia Beautiful One Day Unbreathable The Next

Philip Heggie
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ILHdkQFUWg

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10